I sit down with Francisco R. who opens up about his widower’s journey, as well as his complex experiences with love, loss, and the complexities of grief. We delve into his unique perspective on navigating life after the sudden passing of his wife, Audra. From the challenges of long-distance dating, the unexpected health struggles, to the importance of open communication about death, this episode offers a poignant and insightful look at the realities of grief. Discover how to find the strength to move forward and fully appreciate the resilience of the human spirit.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.
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Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
A Widower’s Journey Of Hope With Francisco R.
Francisco, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me here.
Thank you for being here. I want to tell you, for whatever reason in our world, we don’t get a lot of men willing to share about their journey, but we have a lot of male readers, so I appreciate you being here and showing up for them. For any of the men who are reading, if you are interested in sharing your journey or maybe you know a gentleman who is, please have them contact me at my email address. Francisco, where are you from originally?
Life In Barcelona Compared To Cincinnati
I’m from Spain. I was born and raised in Barcelona. Life brought me to many places around the world, and I am based in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Barcelona, what does that look like compared to Cincinnati, Ohio?
It’s different. One of the things that took me some time to get used to was the eating schedule. In Barcelona, we have lunch around 1:30, 2:00, or even 3:00 in the afternoon. We have dinner no sooner than 9:00 in the evening. It’s a different type of life. It is a big city, it’s a very international city with lots of tourists, lots of history. Cincinnati is much wider. I love being here, but those would be the main differences.
First meal at 1:00 PM is that what you said?
1:00 and 1:30.
Later then. What time does your day start generally or what time did your day start when you were in Barcelona?
When I used to work there, I was working at the university. I was in grad school. I was working as what here in the US you call a TA and also doing my research. I always tried to avoid the rush hour because I had to travel for almost one hour in the subway, and if I did that at 7:00 in the morning, it was extremely packed and very unpleasant. I used to have a delayed schedule. I used to work from 9:30 or 10:00 in the morning until 8:00 in the evening to avoid rush hour in the morning and rush hour in the evening.
What time did you, on average, open your eyes and start moving for the day?
Back then, I was extremely energized. I’m getting older, as you can see.
Hold on. Let me make sure that, yes.
Life there was different. I used to wake up around 7:00 in the morning, but I could go to bed around 3:40 in the morning. I was fully functional until very late. I would just come back home around 9:00 in the evening, then hang out with friends, go out for dinner, or simply stay up and read study, or watch TV. Life was different. Now when I look back, it’s like, “What happened?” Now I fall asleep at 10:00 at night.
I was about to say, imagine if you had a routine now where you were having to stay up as late as you did and then get up like that.
I would need at least six more coffees.
For the record, you said you had two. When some people hear the word coffee, what do you think they are hearing versus what you are drinking?
I drink the smallest size of coffee, espresso a very strong one. I always buy Italian coffee.
The potency of that, in comparison to probably this cup that I’m drinking, what does that look like?
Much stronger. A cup like this size is much more coffee than probably what you can have in a big coffee mug.
Francisco’s Unique Coffee Habits
Why is that, for someone that’s not a coffee drinker, to try to understand why that’s going to be more caffeinated than a larger cup?
It’s more concentrated. You have a much higher concentration. I understand the point of drinking large coffees. When I was living in Spain, I found no point. What’s the point of drinking a half-gallon of coffee? I didn’t understand that but then life brought me to Germany, which also has very cold weather. Then having something warm in your hands, it’s always very nice and comforting. Then I also started drinking larger coffee, but mostly to keep my hands warm. I still do it right now. I’m used to it. I am versatile. I drink a short coffee at home. I drink a half-gallon of coffee at work.
How much coffee are you having a day on average?
Probably too much. Maybe five cups.
What is the latest you can have coffee?
When I was living in Spain, I could even have coffee before going to bed.
I don’t even understand that. Now though, how many was the latest you can have coffee?
I could even have coffee before going to bed. I can fall asleep even here on the floor. I don’t have any problems sleeping.
If I have coffee, let’s say after 3:00 PM, it’s going to be a long night for me. I better have a lot of projects to do because it’s not going to be cool at all.
For me, it keeps me awake, but it does not stop me from falling asleep. It’s a weird feeling.
I have to ask a couple more questions. Do you have a favorite coffee blend or a bean type or brand?
I always buy Lavazza Italian coffee.
Is there a specific place to get that?
I bought it on Amazon. I bought a package with twenty bricks of coffee. That’s enough for a week.
You said bricks, not fresh ground beans. This is coming concentrated.
It’s already grounded, and it’s a vacuum-packed bag.
When you tell someone you are from Spain or Barcelona, what do you think they envision versus what
You know.
That’s a very good question. I never thought about it. She said, “I should start asking around, ‘What do you think about Spain or Barcelona?’”
I think of someplace where family is strong. There’s a huge connection to your lineage and pride in your country and football. Those are the things that come to mind in a rich landscape.
It seems that most people think the same. It’s like an old city in Europe, and like Gaudi, the old architecture, and all the buildings he built there like Sagrada Familia. That’s one of the first things that people say. Also the beach and good weather. Even though the last time I was there, it was raining all the time it was sunny here but that was an exception.
I’m going to say, “Who would think Ohio was kicking it over Barcelona?”
Ohio is a new place for your vacation.
You said you have traveled a lot. What are some of the favorite places that you’ve traveled to?
I would get bits and pieces of every place I have been living. I lived in Barcelona for most of my life. I also studied for one semester abroad in the Netherlands. When I was in grad school, I spent a few months in France. When I finished grad school, I moved to Germany, where I lived for five and a half years before coming to the US. In the US, I’ve been living in Chicago, New Jersey.
Chicago is where I was born and raised.
I used to live in Oak Park. I always mention my favorite city in the US is Chicago by far. I always say that. It’s a perfect balance of beautiful architecture and landscape. The weather is cold but it’s only winter. Summers are gorgeous there. When I was in Chicago back then, I used to wear contact lenses. Back then I had LASIK. The best decision I made but again, I don’t want to recommend it to anyone. It is for me.
The LASIK. My late husband and I both had LASIK eye surgery. He had it done before me, and I remember the way they had it set up. When he was having the procedure, my children and I were in the waiting room, and we could see them open his eyes with clamps and hold them open. He had a bad back from being in the military.
You say the word pain, I’m probably crying already. I’d never heard him complain about pain unless it had something to do with his back. He was squirming, and everything was going on. I was like, “What are they doing? I thought the clamping of the eye was causing him great discomfort,” but it was his position on the table that was hurting him, when they clamped his eye open, I was scheduled to get it next. I was like, “No. I’m doing that.”
He came home. He had the glasses, and within a day or so, he was able to see without any type of glasses or contact lenses. I was like, “It wasn’t that bad,” and then he explained to me what was going on with his back and the table, and that reduced my fear. Whatever the time in between, I went in there. What he didn’t tell me is when they clamped the eye with zero pain because they numb your eyes. They did all of that, and I had to be still. They had the little braces on the side of my head so I could be still, but no one prepared me for the smell. I’m going to leave it at that. Now I want you to tell me what your smell was like in your experience of LASIK.
In this sense, my sense of smell is not that good. At that point, I was prepared for it because I had read about that before. I could feel it, but I was so excited about being able to see that it didn’t bother me but I could feel some of the smell.
When you say feel, it smells like burning flesh. At first, it started to smell like bacon. I was like, “That’s cool,” and then I was like, “They are burning my eyes.” I was like, “Be still, Tina. Be still,” but it was awful. I wasn’t ready for that at all. I can feel all of that. My sense of smell was very acute, and I was like, “That was horrible.” Chicago and contact lenses. I remember. I kept us there.
I remember I had to learn how to blink. It gets so cold there that the contact lenses start to freeze in your eyes. It’s a weird feeling. I never had that experience before. I remember I had to dry my beard very carefully before leaving home because it would freeze. I would just find chunks of ice on my face.
You are 100% accurate, and I laugh because when people talk about going to Chicago in the wintertime, I’m like, “Where are you from originally?” I want to know what their appetite is for very frigid weather. Sometimes they are packing light. I’m like, “You are going to need a bigger coat than that.” If you have not been to Chicago and you’ve been to someplace where it’s warm all the time, and you are bringing what you think is your heavy gear for that, that’s fall. That is not winter.”
Everyone wants to go downtown Chicago and see The Bean. There’s so much good food and things like that, but when you come downtown near that lakefront, and you come around a building that’s why they call it The Hawk or the Windy City. That wind will come and snatch you. It is a lot. I remember growing up there. In high school, you had to catch city transportation. There wasn’t a bus coming to your house. There was a good amount of walking to the bus stop before. I remember coming out of the house. The snow was up to my knees. The school was still going on. You needed to get yourself there. We had to shovel ourselves out of the house. My dad was at work already, and then we’d get dressed, make it there, and be on time. There was no copping out on that.
I didn’t know about the concept of a snow day until I moved to Chicago. I never had it. I can’t even remember the three times I saw snow in Barcelona. Nothing compared to Chicago.
You talked about being in school, but what was your major? We didn’t discuss that.
I’m a chemical engineer, and I did my PhD in computational chemistry.
Reflecting On Past Decisions and Gap Years
When you were going to school, what type of career did you foresee for yourself?
I wanted to be a professor. That’s why I was working at several universities, but at some point, I felt burned out being at the university, and I decided to move forward. Finally, I found a new job in the private sector, which was the best decision I ever made.
That’s cool because when I started my undergrad, I was past the traditional college age, and it made me think. When you graduate from high school and then have the concept to go right into college for a career you are going to study for the rest of your life, I don’t even know how you have a concept of what you want. It made me appreciate the concept of a gap year to live life and do something. What do you think of that?
I agree. Sometimes I was talking about this the other day with friends. It’s weird because where I am right now is because of a decision I made when I was seventeen.
What did a seventeen-year-old know at that point compared to now?
I decided to study chemical engineering because I liked chemistry and mathematics. I didn’t want to work in a lab. I thought chemical engineering seemed to be the perfect match.
That is important. For anybody that’s reading, if you feel like going into college right away is too much, I didn’t say don’t do it but talk to whoever’s funding your endeavor. Maybe have a real talk about the situation and see where it goes from there.
Don’t be scared of realizing that you don’t like what you’re doing. It is okay to drop school or to change your minor or major.
I also believe that, if at all possible, try to have a part-time job in the field in which you plan to major because those first two years can be very basic courses, but if you think you are going to be an accountant, then try to get a part-time job at a tax firm or in accounting. Once you get into that third year, you might start having courses that are not transferrable to another career field. If you are able to do that in your first and second years it can either incentivize you to stay on that path or make you think it’s time to pivot. Having that real-life experience is very helpful.
What I can tell you now is that I made the right decision. Even though I was 17 or 18 years old, I made the right decision. Thank you.
As a seventeen-year-old, you knew a lot. You said thank you to the seventeen-year-old you.
Thank you to me in the past.
In all of this relocating and moving, what did dating look like for you?
It was complicated in a way. It was not only relocating but also being at school. You are in your office or in the lab for so long. I told you before, like a ballpark estimate, 9:30 or 10:00 in the morning until 8:00, but there were times I would stay in my office until 10:00 or come back home and be working until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. It was complicated.
Back then, I remember I had a girlfriend. I met her 1 week before moving to France for 4 months. I told her right away, “I’m moving to France next week. Are you ready for this?” She said yes. She even moved with me to Germany, but after three years, she felt extremely homesick. She missed her family and could not take it anymore. I understand that. She asked me, “Can you find a job in Spain?” I said, “Not with the crisis it’s virtually impossible, and this is my career now.” I understand what she said but yes.
In long-distance dating and being away, there’s a lot to be said about not being in your home country. It’s different from being in a different region, but the ability to operate without family, if family is that core part of your life, can be tough. I can see that a lot.
I agree, but now we have this, and this is extremely helpful. The first time I moved abroad several years ago, we had mobile phones, but international costs were very expensive. I remember having to buy a card that I had to scratch, and then dial a very long number. I would even tell my parents, “Be by your phone at this time of the night, because otherwise, I won’t be able to call you later.” It was different back then. Now, it’s different. I can call my family and friends in Spain whenever I want.
I can relate to that. I was in the Army, stationed in Korea. My late husband and I were dating, and he had to be on the phone. I’d tell him to call me at a certain time. I was going back over some things, and I have some of our original telephone bills. Looking at the cost of that, I thought it could’ve been so much cheaper if it were now on a cell phone.
I remember paying for each text message I sent. I had to be very careful too.
This was like ’84. I was using a payphone. It wasn’t even a cell phone. Maybe cell phones with the big bag, but it wasn’t what we see now. After the girlfriend, what else did dating look like for you?
That’s when I reengaged with my wife. Maybe I should now jump back to school times. I met my wife in 2007.
Her name?
Audra. I was in grad school, and I told you that I used to work long hours. I also told you I did my PhD in computational chemistry. We rely on computers. We rely on electricity. That day, I remember it was a horrible day. The power went off so many times. I lost all my files. I lost everything. I said, “Bye. I’m going to stop for today.” I left at around 5:00, which was weird back then, leaving that early. I went to this street in Barcelona that, back then, was full of music stores. That was my therapy going there and browsing all the new music. You can see probably from my background some of my collection.
Those albums are back there.
I don’t have CDs. I copied them out.
You said how many?
Meeting And Reconnecting With Audra
Thousands of those. Many of them are still with my parents, so I need to bring them back. That was my therapy back then, going to the street and browsing new albums. I would set myself a limit of only buying one, not all of them. That day, I broke my rule. I bought two, anyway.
How much would they cost on average? Do you recall?
€12 more or less for a CD. If it was something very special, €20 but I’m talking several years ago. I remember I called one of my friends. I knew that he was potentially in that area, and he told me he was two streets away because he used to do the same as me. We went to a bar on that street, and that was around 6:00 in the evening. It’s very early in Spain to go to a bar. Normally, people are still working. We were there chatting, and then suddenly we saw this group of loud Americans coming in super loud. One of them didn’t see that there was a small flight of stairs, and she fell on the table. We went to her and asked, “Are you okay?” No one could understand them. No one could speak a single word of English. Then my friend and I stepped in, and we engaged with them, just translating everything they needed. That’s how I met my wife in 2007.
She was the one who fell?
She was the one that fell, and we were laughing. I remember that she always asked me, “Were you laughing because I fell?” I always told her no, but I confessed in the end, saying, “I was laughing because you tripped and fell.”
Was she having a little bit too much to drink, or did she not see it? What did you find out later?
Later on, I found out that she didn’t see it. We were hanging out with that group of friends, and we saw them again the day after. She was there because she was originally from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and she was spending one semester in Paris with an exchange student program from the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee with some college in Paris. She studied accounting and finance. At the end of that semester, that group decided to travel to Barcelona by train. She decided to join them one day before because she said, “I want to stay in Paris and then fly back to Milwaukee,” but then she said, “No, screw it. I’ll go to Barcelona and see how this looks.” She decided at the last minute to go there.
That’s when we met back in 2007. At that time, I was coming out of a previous relationship, and she was also coming out of a previous relationship. We didn’t do anything. We exchanged email addresses, thinking, maybe she won’t write anyway but no, she did when she came back, and we became pen pals for six years.
You learned a lot about each other over those six years.
By email. That’s an advantage over text messages. When you write an email, you write a long story. It’s not like, “What’s up? How are you doing?” It’s not like that. You write about your life and what you’re doing. It’s not that we were writing over and over, but maybe once a year or a couple of times a year, just to say, “Happy New Year,” or all of this. Nothing very special in that sense.
I want to explain because depending on the age of our reader, the idea of email might not resonate. This is similar to writing an entire letter. Back in the day, we used to send Christmas emails or letters as far as what happened, because like you said, the ability and cost of using a phone were too much. Email was one of the easiest ways to communicate over technology without the cost associated with each interaction of being able to send something. To be able to do that, that was huge to stay in contact with somebody. To be able to understand the importance of that. Now we send an email with bullet points just to get it out. This was like a long conversation between people.
The good thing is that you can always go back to them. In a text message, you can, but it’s more difficult to track. At some point, they get deleted. That’s when I met her in 2007. When we started dating was in 2013.
How did you all reconnect? You can’t cheat me. I need to know how we got there.
We were writing maybe once a year at that time. In 2012 or 2013, it was just a “Happy New Year,” nothing else. Then I broke up with my girlfriend in February 2013, right after my birthday.
Did you guys consider dating online or did you all meet in person?
No. We were not dating online. Yes, I broke up with my Spanish girlfriend in 2013. She moved back to Spain in 2013.
Where were you in 2013?
I was living in Germany.
The same one from three years.
I’m jumping back and forth.
No. I’ll keep us on the timeline.
It’s a complicated timeline. I was then suddenly living alone in Germany. I had a lot of friends there. It was easy to go back home. I was living next to Frankfurt. It is one of the largest airports. Sometimes I decide, I’m going to spend the weekend with my family. That’s fine. That’s something I cannot do now, but back then I did very often. I was living there, and then one day in late summer, I got an email from her answering my email that I sent maybe one year before. At the end, she asked me, “Are you still with your girlfriend?” I said, “No, we broke up six months ago.” Then she replied, “I broke up with my boyfriend six months ago. Sorry about that.” Then she wrote, “Would you marry me?”
She skipped right to the good part.
She went straight there.
She’s a straight shooter.
I replied, “Yes, I see a future with us.” Then she said, “I’m serious.” I said, “Come to Germany.”
“If you’re serious, come for me.”
We were being goofy saying this, but at some point, we reconnected. We were writing back and forth, and we felt this started like something fun. It might work. Then she booked a flight to Germany, and she spent two weeks at my house.
What did you think when she said, “I have a flight, and I’m coming to Germany?” Do you remember what your thoughts were?
We were talking about this, and I was excited to see her, just to be with her and see how this would work.
Then she tripped all the time.
We were always making fun of that.
I bet you made fun of that forever.
I did. No, we also made fun of the fact that we got engaged by email. That’s a different story.
You pick her up at the airport. What did you think compared to this 2007 meeting where things have gone?
That she hasn’t changed. She didn’t trip at that time, but I remember she suffered from jet lag very badly. There was a seven-hour time difference and a long flight. I remember we arrived home. We went to have lunch at the Italian restaurant around the corner where I was living. She loved it. She was super happy there. Then she said, “I’m going for a nap,” and she woke up the day after.
She slept for a straight twelve hours. She woke up at 3:00 in the morning and asked me, “What can we do now?” I said, “I don’t know. It’s 3:00 in the morning. There’s nothing to do.” She said, “Should we go for a walk?” We went for a walk in the middle of the night in the city. Then she felt, “This is so different from the US. You can walk everywhere, feel safe. It’s beautiful,” even though it was December.
It wasn’t Chicago cold though.
Milwaukee, where she was from, was even worse. At the end of that visit, we said, “We need to see each other again.” We fell in love during those days together. Immediately after, we planned the next time. It was one month later. I went to the US to be with her. It was my first time in the US. I spent two weeks there. I was supposed to spend ten days, but it ended up being two weeks because there was a blizzard, and they closed the airport in Milwaukee. There was no way to fly back home but that was good. That was a very nice two weeks. Right after that, she came to visit me again in Germany. One month later, I introduced her to my family. Then she went back to Milwaukee. I flew back and met her family. We started arranging for a wedding. We married in June 2014.
February 2013, she emails you.
No. I broke up with my ex-girlfriend in February 2013. She emailed me in early September 2013.
That’s even shorter. In September 2013, she proposed after not communicating for a year.
She came to visit me in December 2013. I went to the US in January 2014. She came to Germany in March 2014. I went to the US in April 2014, and we married in June 2014.
That’s ten months later. Was there another proposal or anything after the email?
We were radical back then and it’s great.
What did your family think?
Nothing. They were very happy for me and for us. They liked her. They connected very quickly, even though they didn’t speak any English. She used to make fun. She used to say, “Maybe they like me because they don’t understand me.”
What was the wedding like and where was it?
It was a small wedding, on the roof of a hotel in downtown Milwaukee. It was a pretty day. There were around 40 guests. It was a small one, but it was a beautiful one.
When did you come to the US and not leave? What did that look like?
It’s much later. As you can see, there was a lot of traveling at the beginning when we were dating. It was a lot of money spent going back and forth. She was planning to move to Germany and live in Europe, but then things started going wrong in terms of health.
Very early into the relationship, her health.
1 or 2 months later.
As much as you’re comfortable with this part, what did that health change? What was it and how did it look?
What happened is she was waiting for her passport to be renewed so she could travel to Germany as soon as she got her passport but in that summer, she burned her hands with third-degree burns. They looked okay at the beginning, but they were not. In the end, she ended up needing surgery and skin grafts. What happened is that she caught MRSA.
That was life-changing for everything because she had to go to the hospital and to the doctors very often in the US, while I was in Germany. We were doing the travel back and forth. At some point, we decided maybe it’s much better to move to a place like the Chicago or Milwaukee area so that we don’t need to do all this traveling back and forth. For the surgeries, there were so many surgeries. The skin grafts didn’t take well. The MRSA, she was on very strong IV antibiotics. It was rough.
Thank you for being willing to share this. Have you heard of MRSA or even thought there would be an issue with the skin grafts or did you think this would be something you do and then keep moving on?
We had to move on together and try to fight and be happy with that. That made our relationship much stronger. What is interesting is that during that time, we were married but living 1 month together, 1 month apart, back and forth. It made our relationship much stronger, which is interesting. I would say that long-distance relationships have two ends, the real bad that where you break up, or the one that makes you stronger. It made us much stronger.
I learned a lot during that time about health. I realized that this can happen. You never expect to have to deal with a health condition, to live with it, or to have to go to the doctor often, hospital visits, surgeries. That’s not what you signed up for at the beginning but again, my vows were “In sickness or health.” That’s what I had to do.
Long Distance, Cassette Tapes, And Appreciating Random Choices
I can relate to the long distance. My late husband and I were in the military. We dated for about six months, and then I had orders to go to South Korea. I was there for a year and a half. The normal tour time is 1 year, but if I extended it for six months, it gave me the opportunity to pick where I wanted to return as my next duty station.
This was 1984, 1985. A lot of letter writing. I have a little chest that I kept with all of the letters we wrote over the years. A lot of writing letters and phone calls. Email was not even a thing at that point in time but to your point, the opportunity to hear the person and get to know them those eighteen months that we were apart, the communication level was higher than if we were in each other’s presence.
Now you are to treasure those letters because you were apart. If you had been together, he would have written letters, but there was not this need to write so many letters. That’s, in a way, a treasure, and it’s something that because of the distance now you have. It’s something that is the same. I have all the emails because we were apart and also, that was 2014, 2015. We would spend hours and hours and hours on Skype. If you are sitting on the couch with your partner watching TV, you are watching TV holding hands. You are enjoying a drink. “What do you think of the show?” When you are talking face-to-face on a laptop or a computer, you talk. You don’t stay there like, “What am I doing?” You talk. We always, later on, say, “Sometimes we miss being apart from each other because we used to talk for so long, sometimes for 7 to 8 hours straight.”
We had two. He had one in the States, and I had one in Korea and then we would send these back and forth to each other. I don’t feel like we talk this much in person, to your point but all of these and I said that one day I am going to take it someplace and get them converted because it’s very some of them are pretty staticky but the intentionality to communicate and stay in touch for anyone that is in a long-distance relationship or thinking about it, what you said is so much easier. They can pick up a cell phone and have that interaction and be able to do something.
Then I thought about what seemed like a random choice for Audra to, on the last day, make that trip to come there and go back to the decisions we made in our youth, they were awesome and look what it turned into. I always think that if that day the power had behaved in my office, I would have stayed in the office on a regular Monday until 7:00, 8:00, or 9:00.
You would have never met her.
She would have gone to that bar. She would have fallen. She would have tripped.
Then no one even translates.
No, nobody to translate. Probably they would have moved to another place, to her coffee that was one block away.
It’s like one decision making such a difference in our lives.
You are not aware of how transcendental that’s going to be when that happens because of the decision of what you study at the, it is a decision that you make in your youth, in a way you have time to think about but this is something that’s happened.
Where did things go from the MRSA in her hand to you guys making the decision to stay in one place?
She didn’t like going to hospitals in Germany because of the language barrier. She didn’t speak any German, and being away from family and friends was something that, in those times, had to be in the hospital. She preferred to have all the procedures in the US, which I don’t blame her at all. At some point, we decided in 2016, that maybe it’s time to just move to the US, to avoid having this back and forth. It was not a cheap life to fly back and forth relatively often. That was when we decided to start a new life in Chicago.
That’s how you got there. Have you ever heard of a place called Garrett’s Popcorn?
I have a bucket upstairs.
Right now, you have some.
Yes.
It is that good.
I go to Chicago relatively often. I have a lot of friends there. I went to a wedding. I went to a conference. The Spanish consulate in the Midwest is in Chicago, across the street from my Garrett on Michigan Avenue.
I will say nothing else, but you may want to check it out.
It is the perfect location. For all those who don’t know about Garrett’s, they are the best popcorn on this planet.
What is your favorite flavor or combination?
I would say the standard one there.
The Chicago mix. This is an adult conversation. Garrett’s Popcorn is so good. It is yummy. If you’ve had popcorn no offense to the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts you’ve had that popcorn or any of that holiday in popcorn. I double-dog dare you to get yourself some Garrett’s Popcorn. You can order it online. Regarding the shipping I want to know if your mouth was not pleased. I want to know if you got some Garrett’s popcorn or you didn’t go, “This is good.” It is yummy.
I must confess, the last time I went to the Spanish consulate, I had an appointment at 10:00 in the morning to make sure that Garrett’s would be open when I left.
I will make my travel to make sure in the airport. I’m like, “Will Garrett’s be open while I have time?” How does that look? I can’t say more about it.
For those who don’t know, next to Garrett’s, there is the Nutella bar. When I was living there in 2017. I can tell you that the Spanish consulate is in a prime location.
It is. That’s prime real estate. How did Audra’s health change after 2016? Now you guys are settled here, and where do things go at that point?
It declined. It got worse. The IV antibiotics were very strong on her, and she had serious back pain that was pretty bad for her. She had very bad insomnia. IV antibiotics for so many years for MRSA. After several surgeries, the skin grafts are not taking well. Her right hand was not looking good at all, and that was hard for her. She didn’t feel secure because her hands were too big and swollen. You could see all the scars everywhere, and she always tried to wear long sleeves to cover them. She also wore very baggy sleeves. She was very self-conscious about that. She was the type of person who would spend hours with makeup. She had a huge makeup collection, and for her, that was very hard. It was very rough to see her declining in that way and her confidence going down that way.
I can imagine wanting to redirect people to her beautiful face and not have them focus on her hand.
There were also many things that she could not do with her hands anymore. She lost all her strength and grip, and things were falling relatively often. That was very frustrating for her, but I would say, “It’s fine. If it falls, we can get another glass of water. It’s fine.” Then she had more surgeries to try to fix that, and they didn’t work out well.
She was in a lot of pain, and having all these medications for so long started affecting her organs. Her kidneys were not in good shape either. It was sad to see her declining in that sense. At some point, she realized, “I have to live with this, so let’s move forward.” Her mood was better in the last few years than when she was on all the strong antibiotics and going to doctors back and forth. She decided not to go to the doctor that often.
What year do you recall she made that decision?
It was when we moved to Ohio. I also think that helped. It was 2020. Everything was in lockdown. She was terrified of COVID because she always said, “If I get COVID, I’m going to die,” because her defenses were so low. I remember being so careful. When I came back home from buying groceries, I would change all my clothes in the garage and put on new clothes.
Same here. Same concept. I was living by myself, and all my siblings would talk about that. We had a basket at the front of the house. We came in. We took everything off. Living in different places, we had gloves, wiped the stuff off, and did all of that. There were a lot of concerns. Insurance makes good health decisions.
She had open wounds on her hands, so she was very scared of everything. I can say that 2020 was a weird year. It was when we moved to Ohio that I found a new job. One month after we moved here, everything went downhill. It was locked down. Suddenly, we were in a new city where we didn’t know anyone in a place that we didn’t know anyone. We couldn’t even have a social life because of social distancing. That was weird, but I am thankful because COVID we spent more time together.
That is true. It brings you back to the, “Why I like you,” and “How to spend time with you is my favorite thing.”
It was like coming back to our roots. We spent long hours together because, at some point, there was nothing to watch on TV. We were talking a lot again. I was always making fun, “Now you’re my office mate.”
That’s good. Was Audra still working this whole time?
No. She could not work. She could not commit to it.
When did she stop working?
Right after the accident.
The Importance Of Having The Death Conversation
Thank you. I want to circle back to something because I don’t want to minimize the level of confidence and struggle we have when we are dealing with a sickness, and people go, “Why don’t you behave like X, Y, Z like you used to?” I see your face. What would you tell someone that they don’t understand about someone who is going through what Audra was doing?
Being extremely supportive and being patient, are the two main pillars, I would say. I cannot say put yourself in this situation because you cannot even imagine what they are going through. The amount of pain that she went through was something that I cannot even comprehend.
Thank you for sharing that because things look different from the outside looking in.
It’s like if you cannot function well you cannot force someone to be what they are not. It was hard because we were young.
You are thinking you got all this in front of you guys. You met Young in Barcelona, and now life has taken a huge pivot. What made you not walk away, and say, this is not what I signed up for? I want something different. What made you say, “I’m here for you in this sickness and health?” Those words meant something to you.
They mean everything. I’m extremely loyal. I would feel horrible doing that to her, and there was no reason for that. You love the person. You don’t love that they have a fancy situation. That’s what I say. That long-distance relationship, hard times, and a lot of nights at the hospital made our relationship much stronger.
It was a buildup for that level of commitment that was before you.
I always think that the people who I call these Instagram couples might look happy, they might look like they have an amazing life, but if their life takes the wrong turn as ours did, I don’t know if they are going to be able to be for each other.
That’s a lot to consider. When you are building a relationship, these are not lofty words that we say. You want to be prepared to carry those out because in my mind, being a widow or widower is the goal when we get married, that we have someone that will stick with us through the good and the difficult parts of life. Not someone that’s fleeting. It doesn’t seem like we are, when we are having this wedding, everybody’s joys, but the goal is to be there for the whole game.
I never thought in that way. That marrying is like expecting one or the other to be the widow. I never thought about that.
That also goes to why I have these conversations. We say those words and it sounds picturesque, but that is the inevitability of our livelihood that 1 of us, 50/50 odds are going to be a widow or widower, but people that are widowed, it feels like society tries to hush us off to the side or make it seem like we don’t count. I feel like we need a trophy. We should be honored like sorry for the people who didn’t have a good marriage because I know there are some situations where you are in domestic violence or even SA being married. Under those circumstances, I do not recommend people stay someplace where they are being harmed for the sake of having stayed married. Seek safety and your well-being because you cannot control another person, but what you can do is deal with your safety.
What I would add to that is like, when people ask, what does it feel to be a widower? Then I say, “Do you love your wife?” “Yes, I do.” Imagine being forced to divorce her and not seeing her anymore. That’s what a widower or widow feels like you are put into a force into a situation that you don’t plan or want.
I agree with that. The timeline of moving to Ohio to the time Audra left this world. Is there any part of that you are willing to explain what that looked like from your perspective?
I would like not to jump back to 2,015.
I’m sorry. Let me say it differently.
No. That’s fine.
Whatever part of that story comes to her transition from this world, how would you like to share?
It will make more sense what I’m going to say if I put things into context. Not at all our marriage was like being sick, being bedridden, or going to hospitals. We had amazing good times, especially when we were in Europe. We traveled extensively around Germany and Spain. That’s something that I’m grateful we had the chance to experience together.
I remember in one of these dinners we had, we were having an amazingly good dinner at a restaurant in Germany, like outside on the terrace, in beautiful weather, and then she suddenly asked me, “We never talk about death.” I said, “I was scared.” Say, “What do you mean?” Yes. I want to tell you that if I’m not in this world, I don’t want you to be sad and alone.
I told her, “No, it’s the same for you. If I’m not here, I don’t want you to be just alone and not rebuild your life. I don’t want that for you either. That was something back in 2015, she had already had the accident, but again, it’s something that you don’t expect that it’s going to end up that bad. Maybe she already thought that was something that could potentially end the way it did. That was like something so weird. That was a very hard moment realizing that this can be real. We never talk. When we are happy together, we never talk about death, but we have to. It’s something that is hard to understand, but we need to talk about that because it’s what you say.
When you marry, you expect that there is a 50/50 chance that one or the other is going to be the widow or widower, but I didn’t think about it that way. That was in 2015, 2020. Her health was not doing good. She spent a lot of time in bed, not feeling good, but there were moments when she would have a much more functional life, and within all the COVID, restrictions, we would go around our neighborhood to walk the dogs and go to the parks. We would even drive and spend some time by the creek or being in social distancing, having breakfast in some place like the old times. There were very good moments in that year in Ohio.
She passed on January 21, 10 days after her birthday. I remember those last days. Now when I look back, I want to give it a different meaning. I give it like a goodbye week without even knowing that. Her birthday was ten days before so I gave her a gift. I gave her a session to go to a spa, to a spa for a face treatment, and also gave her another gift card for another spa that we have not far from home. That was one of these places that they put you like in a chamber with water and with music, whatever. She always wanted to do that, and I said, “I’m going to get that for her as a gift.” We spent a lot of time together that week. She was very active. We went to the spa where she had her facial down.
I remember she was so excited. I was waiting outside. It was COVID times. She texted me, “They are running this offer that I can pay $250 and I can come back here for the next,” I don’t know how many times. I told her, “Please get it. It’s on me.” She was super excited. I remember driving back home and she was like, “Thank you so much. It’s amazing. You treat me like a queen.” I told her, “Yeah. We are in the Queen City, Cincinnati.” Now there is a meaning for the city to be called the Queen City, and she was laughing. She said, “Don’t be that cheesy.” She was laughing. We were joking that way back, and she told me, I remember that conversation coming back from there.
She told me, “I don’t if I was with someone else, would have been that patient to go through all these years.” It was weird that she told me that one week before, so maybe she was already feeling something that didn’t tell me. I was not expecting that she would pass, but I was scared of even facing that conversation with her when she said, “If I was not with you, I don’t even know if I would be alive because I don’t know if another person would have had this patient would have provided with would have support.” I told her, “I’m sure you would have done the same for me.” She said, “We are not even 40 and we have to live with a normal couple. Don’t leave until they are 85 or 90. I remember that conversation driving back home. What I also remember is that we had a fabulous dinner that I prepared, and it was a very good week too.
Then I remember when she went to the other place. It was two days later for this chamber with water and music. The sauna. She was super excited there. She even sent me a video that was the last video that she sent me, and I didn’t know that. I treasured that video. I have like 40 copies of that video. She’s being goofy around in the sauna checking the temperature and being there. I remember that when I asked her, “How did it feel being there?” She told me, “It feels peaceful. It feels like the way death I envision to feel.” She was always having this dark humor. Always the, and I was like, maybe you can find the definition. Then she told me, “When they opened the chamber, I felt like there was more.”
I need something better than that.
I was scared of that. I remember she came back feeling super energized and she said, “This needs to be our year. COVID is going to end at some point soon, you have a good job, and we are living in a nice house. This needs to be our year.” It was hard. I remember the day after that day, she had fun with oatmeal like she used to do. She went to the eye doctor and she tested me with very weak letters. “My eyes are perfect, not like yours.”
You can’t walk without tripping.
I didn’t tell her that. I should have told her.
You missed that opportunity.
I missed it. No, because she was always making fun of herself saying, “I’m 38, but my body feels as if I was 90,” but then her eyes were perfect, so that was very good. She says, “My eyes are perfect,” and then I say, “That’s a good thing. At least you don’t need glasses for that.” That was on that Friday. She passed on a Tuesday. I remember it was the day after Martin Luther King Day. It was a long weekend. I remember that weekend, it started like a regular weekend that she would, she went to the gas station to grab donuts for breakfast. I still remember that. We went to buy our weekly groceries. We went to Qdoba to have lunch and also get her birthday gift cookie or something like that. I don’t remember it, sadly.
We came back and went back home and she was a bit like, “I feel my back is better than normal.” Then she went to bed and could not find the right posture so she could not sleep for the last almost two nights, practically nothing. Then at the end of Martin Luther King’s day, she finally said, “I’m so tired. I’m going to go to bed and sleep,” and for her, it was normal to sleep for very long hours after days with insomnia. That was something normal for her. She went to bed, and when I went to bed at night, she was complaining about her back pain a lot, and she said, “This must be my kidney.” I said, “Should we go to the doctor? Should we go to the hospital?”
She goes, “It’s okay. I’m going to sleep.” I woke up for work. I was working from home back then, and I told her, “Good morning.” She said, “Good morning.” I said, “Are you okay?” She said, “I’m just sleeping. I love you,” and that morning. Then, I remember I was working normally in the office and it was lunchtime. I would go to check on her and those days and ask her, “What do you want for lunch? Can I prepare? Can I get something?” She asked me, “I want a glass of water or to give me some water.” I gave her a bottle of water. She had the water, and then she started and stopped.
You were there when she transitioned?
I called 911 immediately. I was still scared. The police showed up in less than three minutes, and it was rough. It was a matter of a half hour. Everything was crumbled down. It was crazy. It was like such a crazy turn of events. Looking back, it looks like a movie. I have some flashes of what happened. I remember putting our cats and dogs in one room. I remember the one other dog in the bathroom. They were barking when the paramedics were there. The police, there were a lot of people, they were barking out of control, and I still remember when the police came half an hour later and told me, “I’m sorry to tell you.”
The Day Audra Passed And The Aftermath
Thank you for being able to share that with us, it’s something we remember, but when we have to talk about it, it elicits different emotions and brings up different things. I know the sharing of that cost to be able to do that. I want to say thank you. I want to share a couple of things to give you a moment to catch your breath, if I may. That was a lot of sharing.
The idea of the death conversation in 2015. My late husband had a lot of cardiac issues in his family. He had a cousin who died in his 30s on Thanksgiving Day. A lot of people in his family left this world from cardiac issues, and shortly after we were married, he started talking a lot about that reality, the concept that he didn’t think he was going to make it until 60.
Like yourself, I was like, “I don’t want to talk about this. I do not want to have this conversation,” but I learned it is so vital to have that conversation. I cannot express the importance of talking about life after your partner is no longer here because it is inevitable. It’s the way our world works, and to hear their audible desires for your life intensified how much I knew he loved me. For him to be selfless and talk about my life when he no longer existed. The preparation, if possible to do, to leave that remaining spouse in a place of security. I am so grateful that we talked about what my life would look like, and what he wanted for me, and I shared the same with him to talk about so many different things early in the marriage that when he did leave this world, I knew what he wanted. I knew what he wanted for me.
I didn’t have to second guess. I didn’t have to go “What if.” I understand everybody doesn’t have the opportunity to have that conversation, but in hearing this, I encourage you to have that conversation with your children, with your family members, have the conversation with your parents because even though we may be uncomfortable talking about it, it’s going to be so important to have that conversation in your memory banks when they transition because now your mind is everywhere. You are scattered, and your thought processes are uncertain. We show how we practice. If you’ve already had that conversation, the ability to go into that mode is going to be easier than having to second-guess yourself. What would you say to that?
That gives you peace of mind too because I know that some other widows or widowers, felt guilty about moving on. That’s a feeling that I don’t have because I know that she would not want me to be sad and sitting in a corner and being sad all day. I know that. To add to the point when she told me that happens. She was a jokester. She even gave me indications of the type of girl I should be dating. She told me, but I will not say that, but she told me.
I wanted to hear that afterward. “You’re going to tell me that.” We are going to skip over the details.
She told me some indications. She was a jokester. I said, “You are crazy.”
A joke is also the truth. It comes out a different way.
It’s like sometimes with a joke, you mean to say much more.
It takes the edge off.
I still remember what she told me, but probably that she needed to stop.
I want to circle back to something you said. What did that sadness look like for you? Yes, life may have eventually continued, but when that happens, that’s the furthest thing from our mind. We are in this moment, and oftentimes men have to have this portrayal of strength, “I’m not getting emotional and this isn’t hurting me,” but what was that reality for you?
The reality when it happens, what I remember is that feeling numb. I would like to add one more thing that happened that day. It was crazy. She loved birds. She loved having our backyard full of bird feeders, and she placed them all in a way that they would be my office so that I could see the birds eating while I was working. There was this one that fell and she asked me to hang it, and I hung it, but it was not facing my office, and she kept telling me, “You need to change it. You need to put it in the right way.” I said, “It’s okay. It’s January. There are not many birds anyway.” I still remember that bird feeder fell and crashed at some point between when she passed. It was there hanging in the morning when I was working because I remember seeing that and thinking, “I need to change it.” When I looked again later on, the bird feeder was completely shattered and broken.
What did that symbolize for you?
I want to be like saying something funny. Knowing her, maybe was like a middle finger to me saying, “You should have placed it the way I wanted it.” I want to keep it as a joke from her like, “You should have put it in the right way when I told you.”
“Since you didn’t, I’m slamming this before I go.”
That’s what I want to believe because she was a jokester. It has a way of saying, “Keep taking care of our birds,” and even to this day, I live in a new house. I have the same bird feeders that she bought, and I have a couple more of them that she had on her Amazon list.
We need pictures of the bird feeders for the blog. We need pictures of those. They mean so much.
Even she taught me the way to attract hummingbirds. It’s successful. I haven’t seen as many hummingbirds in my life. It’s like a way that she lives on. When I see the bird feed, I see the birds of her. When I see the animals I think of her. It’s a legacy. It’s a way to see. I’m not a religious person. When that happens, you try to find a meaning to everything. You try to see her everywhere, and then you realize that many of the habits that you have or things that you do are because of her. It’s a reflection of what you’ve been doing with her.
Many times. I thought, “What would she be doing now? What would she decide?” You see that you are in that situation many times. Even in my grief, I was thinking many times, “What would she tell me right now?” Then I would say, “The serious or the jokester one?” Sometimes I would go for a jokester, and most of the time for a serious one.
The moment after there is sadness and grief. It’s weird because I didn’t have any family or friends. The only people I knew were the people from my work. I still remember sending a message to my manager back then and saying, “I have to call the paramedics. They are home,” and he replied immediately, “If you need help to take care of the animals, or if you need to be at the hospital, let me know.”
Then when she passed I forgot about the phone. I wanted to check on that, and then I saw another message, “How are you doing?” I replied, “She passed.” The first thing that he did was, “I’m going to your house right now.” My manager came to my house and he told me, “We are going to be here for you. We are going to take care of you. Please, don’t feel sad about reaching out.” He even invited me to spend the night in his house if I wanted, which I said no because of the animals. I didn’t want to have the dogs there alone.
It was weird. That day was strange. Breaking the news to family, to friends. I don’t remember some of the calls. I don’t remember some of the messages. It’s numb. It feels foggy. One thing I remember is when my manager left, he spent like six hours with me. I’m thankful to him. He even told me that if, down the road, I wanted to be relocated to our office in Europe, he would advocate for me. Then I said, “I don’t know now what I want to do with my life, but thank you for the offer.” That’s probably why I’m still here.
The one thing I remember is when he left our room to see all the mess that was there. The room was full of open boxes and the bed was moved. It was like someone had broken into our house. It was sad. I still remember the smell of the room for some reason. I don’t know what they use, the paramedics, but I still remember that. For me, it was one of the most real experiences in my life to clean that room after they left. I don’t know if, I’m sure there’s anyone in the audience who is a paramedic and takes care of these situations, I understand that the job is not cleaning, but it was very heartbreaking to see. That was like the realization that this is what I was left with. “Is it going to be my life now?” I still remember that moment. That was like a big moment of sadness and realization.
The way you portrayed that, and thank you for sharing. Death broke into your house and wreaked havoc on everything, and we are left to, in some sense or another, continue cleaning up or dealing with how grief has come into our lives. When you heard the word grief before Audra passed, what did that word mean to you?
I didn’t comprehend it. My life had been pretty stable to that point. I had lost my grandparents because of age and one out. That was all I had to live through, which is sad, but it’s all the people who have lived their lives, but not for someone.
Now, you hear the word grief. What does that look like for you?
I don’t know how to call it. Maybe because of my experience, it’s like inner reflection because I was in a place where I didn’t know anyone, away from my family, with COVID times and travel restrictions. It was a lot of introspection. I realized that some people, I understand why some people cannot make it. You need to be very mentally strong. You need to be very strong mentally to face this no matter the situation if you are alone or you have family there.
It was a lot of introspection. There are many things that I don’t remember. I became super forgetful suddenly. It’s like my brain was shutting off some memories. Many things that I don’t remember. Sometimes I look back on my emails from work and it’s when I find that I don’t remember sending this email to this person. I don’t remember working on this project.
One thing I have to say is that my manager told me, “Come back to work at your own pace and take work as therapy. You are the most important here. The company is not important. You just grieve however you need and take long walks if you need to. Take your dogs out for walks,” and that was amazing. That’s something that I’m thankful for.
All my coworkers were there. They would come to my house to have dinner with me, give me company, drop me some food, or ask me when restaurants started to reopen, “Do you want to have dinner here? Do you want to have lunch here? Come to my house.” I can say that unveiled the best of these people that I am lucky enough to work with.
Thank you. If you bumped into someone at the gas station and started chatting for whatever reason, sometimes we click with people, and they share with you that, “My spouse passed away a month ago, and I don’t want to connect with anyone. I want to be home alone,” what would you think your response would be to them?
Don’t shelter yourself. Try to open up. I tell from experience, I was forced to shelter because of the COVID restrictions. I still remember that winter was very cold, and there was ice and snow. I remember the first weekend when everyone had left town after the funeral, and I was alone. I remember that weekend was like frozen rain. I could not even go out. I felt like the house was I said, “I cannot make it. I need to go out, and I can’t.” That was hard.
I would say, go out, be healthy, don’t do anything stupid that would be against you or your late partner, and keep the memories alive. Don’t be shy to share them and talk because that’s another thing. I was the first one to feel like this. I still remember, when restrictions were opening, I was going to some happy hour with people from my company and some people didn’t know me. They would ask, and the moment you say, “I lost my spouse,” it’s like the party’s over.
All the air was sucked right out of the room.
Even my group of friends have a chat on WhatsApp. They stopped making jokes suddenly, and I told them, then I remember sending a very bad joke to them to prove that we still need to laugh. I made this word up. This is our craptuation, but we need to move on without forgetting where we come from.
That is so well said because for someone who is supporting someone who is grieving and feels like they are walking on eggshells and don’t know what to do, what would you share or encourage them from your perspective?
Some people would tell me when that happens, they would call me and say, “I don’t know what to say.” I say, “I’m glad that you don’t know what to say. I’m glad I was like you. I understand. The best you can say is just, ‘I’m sorry,’ and hopefully, you will never understand what this is about.” One of my coworkers had a similar experience when he was younger. His wife passed away when he was 35. He became a very strong pillar.
He told me. I still remember the funeral. He came to the funeral and said, “Welcome to the club where no one wants to sign up.” He said that. He’s a very jokester, and we talked a lot. At her funeral, we decided to make it fun. I started the funeral by saying, “Audra used to say, you cannot spell funeral without fun.”
She used to say that too. She was a lot into that humor. That said, already. I remember her friends, sharing funny stories about her. People are laughing. The sisters are sharing fun stories. I remember at the end, the funeral manager came to me and said, “I don’t mean to be weird, but this was the funniest funeral.” Then we accomplished what we wanted because it is what she would have wanted something like everyone being funny and playing her favorite music. I even asked, “Can we play 50 Cent? Can we play Tupac?” I said, “Of course. It’s her day,” and I remember her friends were laughing, saying, “Only at this funeral, you can listen to this music.” I said, “I tried to make it her way.” That at the end of the day, needs to be done in her way.
I’m so glad you shared that with us because laughter is medicine for the soul, to be able to continue living and doing that. You made mention of the fog that you were operating in mentally from being a chemical engineer, highly functional. Did you know that was a normal part of grief to be in that type of fog?
I learned a bit later because I was reading but I didn’t start therapy until after five months because I was scared. Maybe I thought therapy was something that was going to put a mirror on me and make me feel maximized, but I was wrong. I was not like that, but I was scared of this. The way it felt, it’s like, “My brain is protecting me. My brain is trying to numb the situation. It’s trying to soothe everything.” Also, one thing I remember from those days is that I would sleep for long hours.
It’s exhausting. Grieving.
It’s like also my body was shutting down so that I could spend time away from reality. I would say, “I don’t know.”
Thank you. What did you find out about therapy versus what you thought it was going to be?
I decided to start therapy on our wedding anniversary. That was in June. Five months had already passed. That was one of those down moments because you look back and say, “It’s like several years ago we were celebrating our marriage. Now this is what it is.” I could not comprehend, and it was like, “I need to have someone or a professional helping me to have these conversations.
What I learned from these conversations is how to control my grief. Not to feel guilty, not to feel bad while moving on, and to find everything normal, what was going on in my life. To be forgetful. To feel numb. That’s normal. It’s a part of grief.
I want to thank you. You said control your grief, and for the language barrier, when somebody hears the word “control,” it’s like, “I’m not going to grieve, and I’m doing that.” You mean more like managing, allowing, or accepting that I am going to feel this way, or coping skills or different things.
Coping skills like trying to find my happy place, keeping the memories, and reflecting on my past were very helpful, and they prepared me for the next chapter in my life.
Thank you for explaining that. When someone hears control, it would have had a different connotation to it. When you talk about memories, how long, or do you recall at what point you started remembering things like you used to have like your brain functionality or remembering something? It seems like even as we are talking, you are remembering some things that you may have forgotten.
That’s why I’m coming back from, “This happened, or this or this other.” It is like flashes. There are things that I remember very vividly. Other things that are like, “I don’t even remember this word before, after, during, or it even happened. It was like flashes of clarity. All the flashes of being numb I don’t remember what we were doing or how you were doing.
You feel like you are looking at your life from the outside. You are observing your own life.
It’s strange. Also, I would say to anyone who is following this show and is going through these early phases of grief, that’s normal. It’s something that’s shocking, especially for someone who’s as rational as I am. It’s okay to feel that way. There is nothing wrong. Another piece of advice I would give is to come to what you were saying, memories.
Don’t Ignore Your Grief
My manager in Germany, he reached out to me also to give his condolences and so on, and then he told me that his brother went through the same, which I didn’t know. He told me, “My brother went through the same, and he decided to ignore grief, and one year later he crumbled. He needed serious help because he was one year delusional of what had happened. ‘No, I’m okay.” Being stubborn. One year later, he scrambled and told me, “Don’t do that grief.” That was the advice that he gave me. Again, it’s like, as I talk, I remember these things.
That was some beautiful advice that he gave you because, from my perspective and hundreds of people I speak to, people may try to dodge grief or run from it, but it will patiently wait to catch up. A lot of times people are afraid of breaking and crying, thinking they are going to lose themselves there. As you may have thought, going to therapy would have made it worse because we are taught not to talk about it, but talking about it helps in our healing. It helps in honoring our person. If you met someone in the grocery store and they said, “I’m not going to therapy. That’s for weak ones. I can do this on my own, I will be fine,” what would you tell them?
Therapy helps because, again, I would talk to my family, to her family. There was everything. Everyone was very supportive. We would grieve together, but you grieve together, but maybe you don’t cope together. The way to cope, maybe you need someone from outside, someone that is neutral in that sense, I don’t know how to call it, but someone who has a different point of view, that doesn’t know you, doesn’t know her, but knows what you are going through.
That’s what I saw there. That family, we were grieving. We were grieving a daughter, spouse, sister, daughter-in-law, or friend but therapy helps you to put your feelings in order and to build up your coping skills based on that grief. Without the therapy, I don’t know. If I had made it, I but maybe been slower, and more confused, not knowing exactly all the phases or how to understand many phases of my grief.
Have you experienced being in therapy before your wife passed?
I had never been before, and also, what I can say is that my company paid for all the therapy sessions. They encouraged me. They told me, “Whatever you need, it’s there.” That’s something I want to mention.
We want to appear that we are okay and everything is fine, and we are crushed. It’s okay to acknowledge that.
Some people feel social shaming maybe, but I don’t know. You are going to a therapist. It’s not that you are going to someone to read the palm of your hands. It’s that you are going to a professional who knows how your mental wellness can be achieved. They know your brain. They know the phases. I would tell people not to feel mental shame. It’s the opposite. Those who are the strong ones are the ones who know when to reach for help. There is no problem with that.
The strong ones are the ones who know when to reach for help. Share on XThat is excellent. The strong ones know how to reach for help. I would agree. You mention the conversation you and Audra had in 2015. You made mention of her even in laughter, but giving you permission to continue living. Was it easy to continue living?
It was not easy.
It’s important to hear that because sometimes people hang onto a word and they see where somebody’s at now in their grief. I thought it felt like crawling into a volcano, lava on a regular basis.
I’m still grieving, and everyone who is in this situation, we are still grieving. I’m Spanish, so we are in our culture, and we like to joke and smile. I was high. You are speaking my accent. One thing that we do, we like to joke, we like to laugh, and some people think that because you are laughing and joking, it means that you are forgetting but what they don’t realize is that maybe you are laughing and being goofy to honor that person.
There is nothing wrong with that. That’s something that some people feel when they are grieving, they feel guilty when they have a good moment or when they have a good day. I would say, “No, don’t feel guilty.” That’s the final goal of grieving to be functional, to be happy, because the person you are grieving for would want you to be in this position, being happy, being so functional.
If I hear you correctly, the possibility of laughing again, and enjoying life is acceptable. That’s the goal. That’s to continue living again, and whatever that life looks like, it may be different, but give yourself permission to live and continue.
I told you about my group of friends not sending jokes anymore. It’s like, that doesn’t mean that I’m not going to make fun, joke, or live life.
I see you wearing a wedding band. Is that the wedding band from Audra or where is that in your life perspective now?
This is the wedding band from my current marriage, but I don’t know if I can spoil anything.
No. This is my lead into that. You guys listened to a conversation with Jessica. Jessica is his wife, and we are going to talk about both of them together next episode and have that conversation. We are not going to talk about how that wedding band appeared, but I want to also connect that conversation and where we are going. I have asked you a lot of questions and I appreciate your willingness to share. Is there anything that you thought or anticipated us going over or covering that we did not talk about?
No. I would like to add to the wedding band. I kept my wedding band until the anniversary of our wedding, and maybe that was what made me cramp, made me feel bad because I took it off, but for me, it was important to keep it until our seventh anniversary.
As you mentioned, wedding bands, this necklace, this is my late husband and our wedding band. The outer heart is his wedding band, and then the inner heart is mine. When I took the wedding band off and I looked at my finger and I wore that ring for many years, I felt like it was time to take it off, but I still wanted it close to me.
There was a widow at work. When I was talking to one of my girlfriends and I was telling her, I took it off, she said, “You need to talk to this other, this lady at work.” I was like, “Widow talk at work. This is going to be great.” We met in the lunchroom and she showed me her wedding band. She had done the same thing, and I went to a local jeweler. It was so hard to take them in and leave them with somebody, but when I see this, I see continual love, and I can wear this without anyone asking me a question. I may decide to share. These were our wedding bands, or I may not, and they think it’s a nice piece of jewelry because I would see people wear it like a ring on the neck. I felt like that would draw more attention than what I was prepared to have, and this was a nice way for me.
That’s a very nice way to remember the late spouse. I keep my wedding band in my memory pot. It was very hard. I kept the wedding band next to her ashes for a long time, but that made me even more sad.
We have to figure out how to manage our belongings. I’m going to circle back to repurposing or having to deal with their belongings. What do you remember of that part of your grief journey?
Going through all her belongings was very hard. Her sisters came to help me with that, but I could not even go through her makeup collection or clothes. I asked them to please keep as much as they want. There were a few items that I wanted to keep. For example, in this chair, I’m sitting right now, there is a jacket. It was my jacket, but she used to get it all the time. It’s this jacket, and I keep it here on my chair.
It’s the reality that these simple items mean so much, and no one would know it unless you told us.
I’m going to show something else even. You can see the pocket watch there.
The idea. I love that you said I am still grieving. My grief may look different now than when she passed, but it’s not like something is over. We live with it differently, I would say.
For me, just sitting when I’m working from home or right now chatting with you. Sitting on the chair where there was a jacket that she loved. She told me, “I’m going to steal it,” and she did. She stole it from me. When I found it hanging out in our closet, they were still the masks from 2021, and 2020, and I want to keep that in my pocket. The only exception is that I made this jacket. Sometimes I cover her dog with this jacket when he’s cold and he’s sitting next to me. He’s now sleeping.
Thank you for sharing that. Those are the things that give people permission to know they are not alone in this journey at all, and we don’t forget about our loved ones.
What I want to say is that it’s okay to have something like that for people to keep as a memory. Some people keep a ring, some people keep a piece of jewelry, and some people keep some notes. For me, I have notes, I have letters, I have all this, but I don’t know. My desk is already messy enough to have even more stuff, but I felt that having this on the chair was a way to feel embraced by her when I was working.
Any questions for me?
Not that comes to my mind. We have already covered a lot. We need to cover more in the next episode.
Yes, we will. Thank you so much for being here in the show. This is our biggest series, and I am so glad that they were both willing to share their journey in life. Next episode, we get to talk to both of them together.
Thank you so much for this time.
