Before embarking on a new chapter in life, many face the profound and often isolating experience of widowhood. In this poignant episode, Joi Brooks shares her deeply personal journey through widowhood, reflecting on her life after the loss of her husband, Harry. With humor and heart, she navigates the complexities of adjusting to a new routine while cherishing the memory of Harry and the little things that remind her of him, like his t-shirts and quirks around the house. Joi talks about the challenges of balancing work, retirement, and the grief of losing a partner. This episode offers a moving look at resilience, loneliness, and the quiet joys of continuing to honor a lost love.

I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.

Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World

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Evaluating The Realities Of Widowhood With Joi Brooks

Joi, welcome back.

How are you?

It’s winter. Winter is starting to kick in here in Virginia, but what does it look like?

It’s a heated blanket. It keeps me warm. I’m in my office and it tends to get a little chilly because I’m just sitting here.

Are you in New York?

 

 

I’m in New York.

What’s the temperature like now for you?

The temperature is 36 degrees.

We are doing this on a Thursday night and this is my actual last conversation for 2024.

Whereby, it’s only going to get colder.

Yes. It is a bit nippy in Virginia, but it was that cold and I was told the coming week is supposed to be in the 60.

Good for you. We’ll get like 40s but it was very windy. It was 36 degrees and it was very windy. I was out with the dogs walking and I thought, “I can’t wait to get home.”

I can hear the wind outside now. How many dogs do you have?

Three. That’s what happens when you become a widow and you don’t have a social community around you. You build a social community and since you can’t create people, you buy dogs.

Did you have the dog before or since your husband passed?

I’ve always had dogs. They were always my sanity. They were always there for me when I needed to escape humanity. Sometimes, humanity is like, “Oh my goodness,” but humans need social community. We do. After high school, you just can’t find friends the way you used to. It’s not the same thing. High school is like a store for friends.

From me, high school was not the best. I flourished after high school. It was not the cozy situation. High school was not it for me. It was after high school where life became more interesting but if that was interesting part going forward would be more challenging so I could see how that could change. For people that may have not caught our conversation before, would you mind sharing your late husband’s name with us?

It was Harold Brooks. I only called him Harold when I was pissed off. It was Harry. All his family referred to him as Harold, so maybe they were always pissed off. I don’t know. When I would call him Harry, they’d do one of these head cock things like, “Oh, Harold.” He refers to himself as Harry.

The three dogs you have now. Did you have those with Harry or did you get them since he died?

I had two of the dogs and one of them was getting old when Harry was going through cancer. He would always complain, “She’s snoring.” “She’s this.” “She’s that.” She still alive three years later. It’s funny how things end up. She’s not snoring anymore, though. I thought about that the other day, when did that stop?

The Experience As A Widow In 2024

Three years being a widow. What does 2024 look like for you?

It was a year I retired and I sort of retired in 2023 three but I retired from full-time work and I kept all of my part-time gigs. In July of 2024, three of my part-time gigs ended.

Back up a little bit. What was full-time work for you?

All of my work is email marketing related. I had a full-time client. That was in 2023 when that contract ended. That was a long-term full-time contract. I kept my part-time gigs. As I said, 3 or 4 part-time gigs and then all of them slowly started to end. With part-time gigs where you’re working on particular projects, you expect at some point in time, you’re going to solve the project. You’re going to succeed and it’s going to be over. I always knew that, but they extended. I had one client that was like five years.

As they ended, I thought to myself, “Let them end and see what happens. Stop. You don’t have to do this. You need to figure out what you want to do for the rest of your life. You need to slow down a little bit. You’re not proving anything to anybody. You do need to think about your next chapter.” I don’t know what the next chapter is. I’m forcing myself into that and if monetarily it’s a problem, then you know that.

As a widow, you need to slow down a little bit. You're not proving anything to anybody, and you do need to think about your next chapter. Share on X

If it’s I don’t have enough to do problem, then you know that but figure out what the next few years of your life will look like. You are riding out an old routine that may have run its gamut and I wasn’t sure. As they ended, I was like, “Someone’s telling me to end these. Let them in. Don’t get hysterical.” I’m carrying one client and thinking to myself, “What do I do with all that extra time?” Now, I walk three dogs two times a day, which is good. It gets me out.

How far is the walk?

Ninety minutes. They’re about two and a half mile walk each. In the winter, it’s Peter’s down. The second walk will end because there’s only so much daylight and it’s bloody cold. If I’m cold and if my fingers are freezing, what are their little toes doing? I’m not putting them in booties. I have a husky that has hairy toes. She doesn’t care. She’s thrilled. I have an old lady that I have to realize, poor Grandma. You’re freezing grandma. That’s not good.

I have a Boston Terrier. She’s okay. She’s very active but she’s not the hairiest thing. She has short hair. They have coats. The two dogs have coats. The husky is a coat. Two dogs a day which breaks up my days. I wake up in the morning. At 5:00 in the morning, I wake up because the dogs need to go out and then they want to eat and they need to be walked.

It’s around 9:00-ish and I’m reading for a little while. That’s 10:00 or 10:30. “Maybe that one client needs something done.” I do a little work. “It’s lunchtime.” “Let’s go for a walk again.” This is the new routine and I’m trying to figure out, what is this new routine? What do I do with it? Nowhere in it have I ever said to myself, “I should go out and meet people.” That’s never come up.

The Financial Impact Of Widowhood

I was just about to ask you that, so thank you for mentioning that. I want to circle back to a couple of things, the monetary part. Do you have connections with other widows besides myself or am I your loan Ranger over here?

A close friend of mine is a divorcee. She’s still working. Another friend of mine, she’s a widow but I do not have a network of widows around me. I also don’t have a network of lots of friends around me. I’ve got neighbors, three dogs and one friend that I do a lot with and a lot of other acquaintances that I connect with on occasion, catch up with, a happy birthday type of things. I have some high school friends that I talk with but they’re not in New York.

To the point regarding the financial impact of being a widow, and you may have looked at the statistics and looked at the idea of the financial burden that is placed on journaling and the way society is set up. A lot of times, women are still making less than their partner. If you’re in this traditional household where you’re standing home full time, it changes the game. It changes so much.

There are so many people that I have spoken to that they dare not mention their financial stressors because people can hardly take the weight of their grief just period. Not to mention, we didn’t plan for a wheel. We didn’t plan for life insurance. All I have was his last paycheck. I received $200,000 from Social Security when he passed but the amount of money I’m getting for his Social Security doesn’t cover.

There was no retirement plan and just on and on. People say, “We didn’t want to talk about that,” or, “They were so young,” or, “I didn’t think it was important. We could do that later.” People that are married reading this conversation, what would you share with them from your experience that would help them for the long term?

It’s a big deal. It’s not something that anybody wants to think about. It even gets more complicated with children. Let’s say you’re a stay-at-home mom. If you’re riding on paycheck to paycheck and there’s nothing there. That’s very scary and I’m sure there are a lot of people doing that. That’s not a good situation. I don’t know what to say about that. I had the opposite because Harry had a few complications that took him out of the work force for ten years, so I was the breadwinner.

We didn’t have children because we were married later on. That situation was a little different and I can only say that I was always concerned about money. I was the breadwinner but I was always concerned about money, so I was always working. I would go nuts if I wasn’t working. That’s the type of person I am. I understand that there are other people that don’t think that way. I would say that for every woman out there, you have children but you’re living from paycheck to paycheck. You need to think of some way to make some money. That’s a horrible thing to say.

Why is it a horrible thing to say?

It’s because it makes for anxiety. It’s like, “How am I going to do that? I’ve got dinners and children and things to do around the house. Now you telling me I should have a job, too.” It is a job but it’s not like your work with your children and being the homemaker of the house. It’s not a job. That’s not the point. The point is, if you’re living from paycheck to paycheck, that’s the problem.

People don’t like to talk about money, but it’s a necessity in the world in which we live. You don’t get to get very far or much without some monetary backup. Imagine if you’re just getting by now with them working. When the inevitable happens, how are you prepared for that? As yourself, I’ve worked since I was, I want to say ten years old.

I was going to say I worked forever. I started babysitting and it just never stopped.

I was babysitting then I had a job at a fast-food restaurant then I went into the military. I’ve always had a job, but there was a stent. I was home full-time but I was so in the Army Reserves. I didn’t give that up. It wasn’t a lot but it allowed me. I spent five and a half years active duty in the military. The remaining Army Reserves, I have a retirement check from that at the age of 60.

That’s a decent amount of money but it would seem very hard for us to survive only on someone’s Social Security check. Now, if you had children. They’re minors or still in college wherever that lays that you would have money for that. We do ourselves a disservice by not talking about the adult conversations we need to have.

My husband was not aware of his benefits. I was a financial person and he was not. When I try to talk to him about that, he was like, “I don’t know.” He was in a Union, so I said, “Harry, do you mind if I talked to your Union rep?” He goes, “No, I don’t.” I called up the Union rep and I said, “Harry got cancer. I want to know what’s going on here.” He said point blank, “You have nothing to worry about.” I’m like, “I don’t?”

What type of Union was he in?

551 and 773. He was in a bunch of different Unions.

My husband was in International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Union. What trade?

I can’t remember. It wasn’t Teamster. He was always in a Union. Everything that he did.

For someone that doesn’t know the Union or heard of it, what is that mean to you when you talk about being Unionized?

He always worked in a field that had the support of an established Union. It possibly was a Teamster’s. I don’t remember. I’m not sure. There’s Teamster. What’s the other Union?

With my husband, his organization was an International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. They had an international overarching board and then local municipalities had their own group of people. What I found with the Union, they took care of their people. They had safe working conditions. They make sure they were being treated fairly and there was fair wages.

That group of people stood on their behalf to be the intermediary between them and the employer to make sure that people were not taking advantage of. When I think of these, I think of like teacher Unions or United Auto Workers or some of those organizations. If it were not for those organizations, a company that rifle is trying to make business would do that at the cost of their employees. Those organizations prevented that and we’re there to stand up for the employees.

He worked for oil and heating company.

HVAC or that kind of stuff.

When I did speak with the Union rep, he’s like, “Don’t worry. He’s got an insurance policies and a pension plan. You’re good.” I’m like, “Okay.” I didn’t worry. I did get his pension. I did get his insurance policy and I was still working for the first three years. I’ll be going on your four for the first three years. I was working full-time and with part-time gigs and I was okay. I just started to retire and when it came time to retire, I ended up retiring on my Social Security and not his. I forfeited his.

Let’s have a conversation about that. People often say, “I’m going to draw their social security.” The question is, whose Social Security is the highest? That is important to run those numbers, too. I didn’t know this would turn into a money conversation but I’m here for this because in going to Social Security’s website, you can find out. You can print out how much you’ve made since the very first time. It’ll tell you what your income would look like at age 62 and all those different ones.

From my running of the numbers, whether you get at 62 or you wait until 70 or whatever they have it. It’s the same amount of money. You’re just waiting to get what appears to be a larger lump sum. If you start getting it at the first amount of distribution, when you amateur rise it over the time value of money.

It’s the same.

Wait until you’re 70. You’re going to get this big amount.

The important thing to consider is if you’re not working, go ahead. If you are working, you’re going to get hit with taxes that are going to be at the Union. Our waited and waited because at 66 plus some amount or whatever. You’re not taxed. You can take your money, so I waited and then I took it all. If I had waited until I was 70, it would have been about a hundred more dollars. I’m like, “Really? I’m going to wait for till I’m 70 for a hundred more dollars a month? Woohoo.” I just took it. His pension insurance went into a wealth management fund, which hasn’t been doing well in the past three years because we had the best of the best.

I took Mark’s retirement with the assistance of my financial advisor and I went with an annuity. I never had one before but made some good choices with that. I am grateful that we planned. I’m grateful that I’ve been able to work full-time and do that but I can tell you, that was such a hard decision to sit down with the financial advisor and make that choice with the money that I received because he passed. Whether it was a life insurance or the other things because it was like one of the big girl decisions that I thought we would be making together and I put off doing that. I don’t know how that was for you, but it was super hard for me.

Dealing With The Emotional Challenges Of Widowhood

It wasn’t difficult. There are other things that are far more difficult like getting rid of his clothes. Years later, I still have a closet full of clothes. Not shoes. Not pants. Winter coats and shirts.

You have done some urgent, I’ll say.

I can’t get rid of them. Every time, I’m like, “I’ll just,” I close the door. “No, I can’t.” I wear all his T-shirts as pajamas. I’m like, “That’s okay.” The man had 9,000 T-shirts but I still can’t get rid of them because they all say something on them. I don’t have a problem bringing them to the thrift store but I keep thinking if I go somewhere and I see a guy wearing this T-shirt. I’m going to freak out.

I’m like, when you’re ready, you’re ready. As I said, the shoes, I threw the shoes away. There are meaningless to me. Pair of stinky shoes. I don’t care, but it’s all those shirts that he wore so well. That, “He looks so nice in this shirt.” I take it out and I remember that.

I used to hear people say before, “They’re a widow. They’re crazy.” Do why we are? The things that we have to go through. The things that you have to endure like throwing away your husband’s shoes. Throwing away your husband’s toothbrush, underwear, and all those different things and going to bed without them in the bed where you were in and saw them. Those things mess with your mind. I don’t even take it lightly. For real, this will drive you insane. The detethering of your life from them. How have you kept yourself from not from going crazy?

I talked to him every day.

Before Harry passed, if you would have heard somebody say, “I’m talking to somebody dead every day.” What would your mind say?

The thing is, I would say to anybody, “I just had this conversation with my sister.” I texted my sister on her birthday. I sent her something from my dad. I said to her, “Mom and Dad whispered things to me all the time. What did they whisper to you?” I got no response and I thought, “Okay, so they’re not whispering to her. They’re shouting to me.”

I would say that different people manage these things differently. All the people in my life that have gone, all of them talk to me and I talked to them all. I’m very busy all day long talking to dead people. Again, it’s what happens to you as you get older because all of the people that you knew begin to pass away.

You saying you’re talking to them. Are you hearing your own voice in their words or you hearing their voice talking to you?

Their voice for the most part. Sometimes I’ll catch myself doing something and I’ll laugh going up, “That’s what mommy used to do.”

Do you think it’s literally them or it’s your memory of what they would say to you and what that would look like now?

Both. More so memory, but there’s a little bit of maybe.

Did you had signs or things that you feel like that was them showing up in spaces at all?

There’s always that, yes.

Please share.

I’ve always had numbers that roll. Always. It’s a combination of 1/11, 3/11, 9/11, 11/11 and 7/11. I always joke about 7/11 because you know. It’s like, maybe I’ll go get myself a cup of coffee, but those numbers roll and what will happen is I look at the clock and it’ll be 7:11. It won’t happen for a long time and then suddenly, every time I look at the clock, it’s 1:11, 7:11, 9:11, or 3:11. I’m like, “Stop.”

Who do you think that is when that happened?

It’s somebody. It’s somebody saying hello and it’s happened pretty much on my life. It’s usually a time when I think to myself something is going on. I don’t know what it is and I just need to concentrate on something. Sometimes, it isn’t even a person. It’s just something. Maybe it’s anxiety and I realize that there’s something going on that I need to work out. That happens but I will do things that will honor my parents.

I would know that something would make my dad happy and I will think about that or something will make my mom happy and I’ll think about that or I’ll do something for them. Whether it’s a meal or make their favorite foods. Things like that. I don’t think that’s crazy. Some people might think that’s crazy, but that’s cold legacy. That’s how these people live on.

Honoring And Remembering Lost Loved Ones

Invoking their memory. Have you and your sister learned how to honor the way you grieve differently?

I don’t know how she grieves and I celebrate. There’s a little bit of nervous anxiety in me. I might make jokes about it. When I’m nervous about it, I make a joke or two. When my father was passing on and we were going into the hospital, it was very stressful. I might have made a number of odd jokes that she may have felt were inappropriate.

She was grieving in a totally different way while it was happening. My parents both passed away in 1995, so I still talk about them. I would love to have conversations with my sister about them but whenever I do bring them up, she’ll say things like, “I can’t believe you’re talking about this.” It hurts her and it doesn’t hurt me but she won’t say, “It’s hurting me.”

She’ll think that I’m talking about this almost like an obsession. I’m talking about it because I’m thinking it’s not an obsession. It’s a legacy. “Do you remember the time that mommy, blah, blah, blah” She’ll say, “I don’t remember it that way.” I’m making her unhappy, nervous, and anxious. I’m like, “That’s not the that’s not the conversation I wanted to have.” I can’t talk about my folks with anyone, so I have to talk to them straight on.

That is interesting. The isolation and the hush of the people that are no longer here, to no longer evoke their names.

I have a lot of that isolation going on because there’s not a lot of people to talk about Harry with. His family isn’t really my family.

Not a lot of people that you can talk to about Harry. That part right there is why I have these conversations.

That’s why I talk to Harry directly.

We need to have the ability to say their names, talk about them, and remember. The things about them did not just disappear afterwards. Our love for them still exists.

 

 

Sometimes, I’ll turn around and go, “Hi, how are you doing?” I don’t care if it’s crazy. I don’t care. I’m not saying he’s here. I’m not buying him clothes. I don’t buy him food and put it out on a plate. I don’t that. I don’t dress up as him and go out pretending I’m Harry. I’m not doing that. I’m merely looking at him and going, “How you doing, Hun?” I’ll do something during the day. Here’s a few of those things. I’ll be in the kitchen. Harry will be on the couch watching television. I am one of those clunky-klutzy women that make a lot of noise. I’m not dainty. I’m not ballerina. I’m in the kitchen.

Joi, how tall are you?

I’m 5’2 1/2. I’m not very tall and I’m thin. I’m a klutz. If it can fool, it will. If I can drop it, I will. If I can trip, I will. Also, I’m big and loud. I’m in the kitchen cooking and I go open a cabinet door. I get something out of the cabinet door and close it. He’s no longer alive but what he would do when he was alive, he would shout, “Don’t forget to slam the kitchen cabinets. Don’t forget to close the refrigerator door. Don’t forget to close the lights.” He would say old these things because I wouldn’t do it.

I’d walk out of the room and forget to turn off the light. “Don’t forget.” When I do that now, I’m giggling going, “Sorry about that,” because I still do it. If I wear any shoes with heels, not sneakers, and working from home, there’d be no reason for me to put heel shoes on. Sometimes, I would go outside have heeled shoes. I’d be walking around and he would say, “Don’t forget to pick up your feet when you’re walking,” and all of these things. I still do that.

Those things are the parts of grief in losing a spouse that no one talks about out loud but almost everybody is doing that. When you wear that outfit that you know what they would have said their thoughts or words comes through your mind on autopilot.

“You’re not going out with that, are you?” “You’re not wearing that out, are you?”

It’s not like you bury them and all those things just go away. They don’t just go away and the inability to not share that. I don’t understand why people don’t realize we still love them.

Even if you move on to someone else, it’s like it doesn’t matter. When your parents passed away, you’re not getting new parents but all of those memories are still there. You’re going to still run through them in your mind. They’re not going to go away. Even if you lose a friend or if you lose a husband or a wife. You may go on to do something else but that twenty years of your life, 25 years or 40 years. Whatever how long it is. Those memories just don’t go away. “I have new memories now.”

If you lose someone, you may go on to do something else but however long it is, those memories just don’t go. Share on X

That is so important for a widow.

Navigating Loss After Remarriage

How do you deal with your old memories with your new husband?

I’m answering that. Thank you for this conversation, because we are somewhere down the road of this journey. People with think, “They’ve just gone on with their lives.” You can continue to exist. You can continue to find a life but the memory of them does not go away. Even as we’re wrapping up this conversation and people going, “I’m not going to think of them. I’m not going to have these issues.” I encourage you to embrace them because why should we get rid of love?

How do I balance, Fred, my current husband and Mark as it comes up? Mark and I wore the same size shoe. Most of my winter socks are Mark’s socks. My hiking boots and some of my gym shoes, were Mark’s shoes. I’ll wear those sometimes. I have one of my favorite pair of hiking boots and they’re like safety boots. When I wear those, I be like, “Wow.” I remember he would go, “You’re not going to wear my shoes, are you?” I’m like, “See, what happened? I’m wearing them all. See how that goes?” The dark humor comes up in amazing ways and if it can be any weirder, my current husband’s middle name is Mark.

There you go. Does he get jealous? Does he laugh it off?

I’ve never called him on it. When I started this nonprofit, remember when I was trying to get my YouTube channel? Fred texted his friends and contacting people. “She needs 100 people in the YouTube. I need you to follow this. I need you to do this.” He has been my biggest supporter. I did a show with him and another gentleman who married a widow. They both said their confident in who they are. They’re not in competition with somebody that’s deceased.

I’ve never compared him to Mark to make him feel like this is a competition. I met him where he was as a person and how that worked for me. The month of March is when Mark passed. That is a challenging time for me and he gives me space. He tells me, “You’re getting a little punchy,” and just so I know. Not that he’s saying it to change because I can’t control that. Mark’s birthday is in June.

That is another difficult time for me. Our wedding anniversary is the day after my birthday. I have disconnected from the anniversary because I couldn’t handle my birthday because I was so zoomed up about the wedding anniversary. I just stopped thinking about it all together. These are our wedding bands and I wear this.

Did you get that remade?

Yes.

Here’s another thing, I’ve got my wedding band and his wedding band. I said to a friend of mine, “Is it wrong if I would take these to the jeweler and either sell them?” She was like, “No, it’s not wrong at all.” I’m like, “I don’t know if I could do that.”

I took it to the jeweler. The outer heart is Mark’s wedding band and the inner heart is mine. I wanted something I could wear, looked like jewelry and I could always wear this and they have purpose and meaning. To me, this is forever love. Hearts on top of hearts. I can wear this all the time. He’s never said a thing about feeling uncomfortable. That’s never been it and I love him for that. I remarried and I’ve kept my late husband’s last name.

You had children. There were some things.

One of my co-workers was like, “When you get married, when are you going to change your last name?” I was like, “Doing what?” I was like, this could be a game changer. What if he thought me changing my last name, some people are pretty stuck on that. That has to be a thing for them and I asked him. I said, “We’re getting ready to get married. What do you think about the name thing?” He said, “You change your name? Your children wouldn’t have a parent with the same last name.” I was like, “He gets it.” The second thing he said, “You’re old to be doing it. That’s a lot of work.” I said, “Sir, you could have stopped at the nice part. You could have stopped there.”

When I changed my name, it became so complicated because I went from a very short name to a longer name because I kept my father’s name and my name. Now, it’s like I have this ridiculous name in every single institution has it a different one. When I die, I want to have any room on my tombstone for, “Was a great person.” It will be, “AKA Joi, Joice, Joy, Susan, Joi Susan Tamber, or Joi Susan Tamber Brooks.

I’d never did that. To the question, I think about Mark daily. My last name is his name last name. I’m a supervisor at work and I’ve had a gentleman that has been sick for a while. He passed on November 29th, so the day after Thanksgiving. I have been emotionally distracted thinking about, 1) His wife. 2) We were the same exact age.

It just brings you back. Death is so touching because it’s when we realize how fragile we are as human beings. When we’re young, it does not phase us the same way. I shouldn’t say that because you’re very young and you lose somebody like a grandfather or a grandmother that you very close with it. It can be and even your rabbit or something when you young but you bounce back.

Grief is a reminder of how fragile we are as human beings. Share on X

Some kids and I’m not saying every child does because some kids don’t. I’m only saying that as we get older, as I said losing people, it happens more and more. It’s just a reminder of how fragile we are. You’re not only empathize empathizing that this person’s passed but that he’s got a wife. He’s got children. It goes back to, do you remember me or remember Mark. All of these things replay themselves.

Sometimes they don’t because I work with between coaching widows and a lot of stuff I do. It doesn’t always bring me back. For some reason, this made me start thinking what that felt like, the first day and what that felt like the second day or the third day. This grief brought me into a different space because I’ve never had an employee pass.

He was getting sick and I was trying to restructure the workload. Even though he may have been showing up for work, I knew his capacity was diminished, so trying to give different things he could do that was value added, versus having other people learn how what he was doing to fill in this gap to start developing a new job position because I was going to have to hire somebody else. I’ve often heard people talk about, “When you pass, your employer doesn’t care. They’re just going to replace you.” Now to be in this space where I’m having to replace, I try to look at it. I’m not replacing that person. I’m finding somebody else to accomplish this task that needs to be done. Nobody can replace him.

No one can replace him but this task still needs to be completed. You cannot ignore the reality that task needs completion, versus that person is not replaceable. This person had auto immune system problems, so he had not been in the office. I met him one time and I had been his supervisor for a few years. We talked on the phone. The interesting thing that happen, I got bronchitis back in August. In September and October, I was Horrible. I could hardly walk up to my steps without breathing and just being labored and difficult.

As I started getting better, I started thinking, “This is how he been feeling for years.” His body hasn’t been shown up and he doesn’t get to be in the office. I have this little small talk and I was like, “Timmy, you can do better.” I start calling him more over small conversations but just to talk to him and to be there. I saw him warm up to that.

I said that we don’t know what people are going through until we’ve walked in their shoes a little bit. To this conversation, being able to talk about Harry and having a safe space, we need people to understand that what I’m going through may look a little different than what you’re going through but that doesn’t mean I don’t want you to run away. I want you to meet me where I’m at.

I would say that I’m not unhappy. I would say that I am alone but I’m not lonely.

Have you always been a by yourself person?

Yes.

This is not abnormal smell. It’s not like you’re a super sociable person when Harry was living and he passed and you retreated. This has been your mode of operation.

It does occur to me that my ability to take care of myself when I was younger had a different meaning than it does now because I’m getting older. Being alone, I could need help and it’d be anybody here.

You mean like if you’d fall or do something.

I fall and I can’t get up type of thing.

I realized that’s not a reason to have friends but it’s something to think about. I contemplate these things often. I’ve had people say to me, “You should get out and meet people.” One of my friends says, “You don’t like to go out for dinner. You don’t like to do this. You don’t like to do that. You never going to meet anybody.” I’m like, “Meet anybody? Are you trying to tell me that I should be dating?” She’s like, “It could happen.”

I’m like, “I understand but I don’t enjoy going out for dinner. I never have. I’m more happy making dinner and inviting friends over.” She would say, “Yes, but,” and I’d be like, “You’re right. I’m not saying you’re wrong. It would be a way from me to meet more people.” If I’m always going out with the concept, “I’m going to meet somebody new.”

More pressure.

It’s just artificial.

The Search For Meaningful Connections

Let’s go back to something. would you want a bigger human community?

I should have it. I don’t know what I would do with it if I had it because I think I’d be like, “Leave me alone, please.”

Are you still doing Email and Coffee?

The show is still there. It’s getting difficult as it evolves because I’m trying to move away from email. I’m trying to move into people, places, and things.

Your podcast had morphed into something different.

It morphed within the first year and I realized I just need to talk to people that can entertain, have a conversation, tell a story, be Lively and share something that’s not the same conversation as I had before.

That’s unique and entertaining.

That means having to finally these people out there. Where are those people? Where are they? They’re not all LinkedIn. They’re not all at Facebook, Instagram and X. I need to network with people to find out who they know. I say that to people when I talk to them, but I don’t think that everybody understands YouTube or the show. I don’t think that lay people understand what I’m doing. When I say lay people, it’s not like I’m an entertainer or a celebrity of some kind.

They’re not podcasters.

I don’t think that they understand. I’ll get a lot of people going, “I’ll let if I meet somebody,” and nobody here.

Are you part of any of these shows or network groups where people get on each other’s shows? I’ve seen a lot of those things pop up.

I met a woman that does that and she’s been very helpful with me. I’m having a conversation with somebody that contacted me on LinkedIn that has some network and I’m going to find a little bit more about that. Some of the show groups that I belong with have all of these spiritual coaches and work coaches. I’m like, “I’m sorry. I’ve talked about that. That was the first three years of my show. I’m going into year five. I need to meet other people.”

If you had to pick up 2 or 3 types of people, what would they be or what would their interest be? If anybody reading, if you hear these people who know them. What will be the type of people?

I would love to talk like anybody like yourself that has been through something but you’re able to have an intelligent conversation and share stuff. You have questions that you can ask me and I can ask you. We can fill a conversation without going, “Tina, what’s there with you?” We’re jumping all over the place and we keep going. We could do this for five more hours.

Like what we’re doing.

People like yourself that have just got something to share, have a personality, think things through, and are unique. You could have a job that is just passionate and it could be any a job at all. How do you found that job is interesting. The career that you picked is interesting. Why? Your career in the military is not interesting.

A lot of people have done that, but how you found it? That’s your story, and how you delivered it, that’s even more of a story. Those are the types of things. It can be anybody but it could be anybody that is not self-conscious in talking about themselves, their experience, their family, friends and things of that nature.

Somebody who is a storyteller.

I’ve been looking for people that are somewhat well-known. I’m not looking for Brad Pitt to be on the show. There have been celebrities, I’ll call them celebrities, that I connected with over time. Some of them are authors, actors, and hosts. Different types of people and I have connected with them and try to get them to be in the show. Some people go ghost me and some people say no. It doesn’t matter. I keep on reaching out. I don’t care.

I’ll be on YouTube. I like their YouTube stuff and I’ll watch a few of their stuff and I’ll subscribe to their Channel. I’ll be like, “They would be fun in my show. I’ll connect with them.” This is how I find people. I just keep on doing it. I reach out. As I said, if they go me, that’s fine. If they say no, that’s fine. If they say yes, I’m happy. I got another show.

Evolution Of Grief Over Time

A different subject. How does your grief look different now than year one?

It has settled into my routine.

Is that your safe space having a routine also?

Yes, I’m routine hound. I wake up in the morning, have coffee and in my head, I’m always thinking, “Harry, do you want a cup?” Always. Every morning. As you had mentioned about socks and shoes. I wear Harry socks and I’ll put them on and I’ll think about him. His T-shirts are for bedtime, so I think about him then. It’s all gotten into a little bit of a groove. I am not a crier and grief for me is not sadness. Is the word melancholy better than sadness?

Melancholy is like just boom to me. Where sadness is a debt. There’s a different. A heavy weight or something.

It’s not heavy. It’s very light. I would say that is very unique for me because it’s all of the people in my life that have passed. I grieved over my mom and my dad. I cried when Harry passed, but it quickly became because it wasn’t any surprise. It wasn’t like they were here one minute and then gone the next. It was such a surprise. Harry was sick. My father was sick. My mother was a surprise, but that was the first death where I went into a spiral of grief that became all too familiar. By the time Harry passed, I was like, “Been here. Done that. I’m not doing this to myself.” I was able to turn it into a remembrance.

The Choice To Embrace Life After Loss

For someone struggling with remembrance, what are some ways of that looks like?

Somebody may remember, “Remember when we went out for that dinner?” “I love the way he smelled.” “He was wearing that suit,” and then they’ll begin to cry. “I missed those dinners.” “Now, I’m alone.” It becomes this utter spiral of sadness. It’s all about you. No, it’s not about you. It shouldn’t be about you. In other words, it’s not like you left me. It’s not like I am angry. That’s not the feeling that it is. Do I think that? Yes.

I say things all the time, like, “Harry, why did you do this to me?” I’m not going to spiral down into depression. “He left me. “Now he’s dead.” “I’m alone.” “I got this house.” “What am I going to do?” I’m not going to do that. I’m like, if I’m feeling this anxiety about the house. Is it time to sell the house? It’s more like, yes, I have a problem. I’m alone in this problem and I need to solve the problem. he didn’t intentionally set it up. Would I be doing this with him if you were alive? Yes, but he’s not. That’s reality. We would have these situations in any case.

I’m forced to do it alone. That is the reality and there is the melancholy that’s more of a sadness but I’m not going to spiral out of control. That’s been a life lesson for me with all problems. You have a problem with work. You go to work. You hate your boss and you’re thinking, “What do I do?” Every day, you do this until it’s like Sunday night where you’re like, “Oh, God,” because it’s going to be Monday soon and you’re going to have to go. You’ve got a problem.

How are you going to solve the problem? Do you look at your husband or your wife and say, “You solved the problem for me.” This is your problem. If you have somebody that understands your problem, that’s wonderful. You have somebody you can talk over your problem, that’s wonderful. In essence, you’re going to have to solve that work problem. You’re going to have to solve that relationship problem that you have. I’m going to have to solve this money problem or this house problem or whatever it is. because I’m alone now and he’s not here to help me with it.

It’s not a personal attack. This is just part of life and what happens.

I realized all of those things and that I have the option to take a memory and make it sad and difficult to remember or turn it into a celebration. I just decided I like celebrations.

 

 

When did you just start making that choice? Was that year one you were making those types of choices?

It’s started with my mom. In the beginning, it wasn’t that way with my mom. I would say that I had 2 or 3 years of grief with my mother.

Thank you for sharing that because I don’t want people to think like we waved a magic wand and this is what we’re doing. This has been forging through hot lava to get to this space.

It was a hot lava because I had just gotten married. I lost my mother and my father. I had a new husband and no mom and dad. Nobody to share this new experience with. You go to your moms and you talk about stuff with mom. Mom comes over and have dinner. It’s the family and your husband calls your mom. It’s all this interactive then none of it. Everything’s gone, so it’s me and my husband and nobody on my family side. That was very typical for a long time. Again, I lost my mom. Within the next month, I lost my father. I was grieving over my mom and dad and I was just married.

It was 2 or 3 years. I was just getting my s*** together when 9/11 hit and I was in New York for 9/11. I was reminded, “We’re pretty fragile here. You could die at any minute.” I spiraled again. I ended up in therapy at that point and it took me a long time to get it together. I’m at a fifteen-year mark. My mother and father died in 1995. I am so practiced in death that it’s not that it doesn’t base me but I celebrate the life of it and I realized how important it is to do that with people with everyone.

It sounds like you’ve embraced it.

It’s a celebration. If you have people around you and they’re cluttering your life, I would say, “Why don’t you get people around you that can help you celebrate?” When those people who are around you, if they’re family members that are going through things, that’s different. I’m talking about the drinking buddy that you just see when you’re drinking. What kind of a relationship is that? Think about that.

When those people around you are cluttering your life with rubbish, why not surround yourself with people who can help you celebrate? Share on X

That is important. Sometimes, we just let things happen and we don’t take responsibility for our own life and sometimes requiring a change. To flip it around a little bit, I’ve been asking you questions of me. We’ll make it the Joi show. Now, you’re the host and see if you have some questions of me.

With the show and your network and you’re talking to widows. Do you find that the conversations bring you to its bittersweet? It’s that melancholy. I don’t know what the word. I’ll call Bittersweet, but bring you to that sadness where you can help them celebrate or are you finding that you sometimes get sucked into more sadness.

More of the A because that’s my personality. More of the A because we attract what is like to us. By default, I am always trying to find the silver lining. I am more of my faith. I trust God that there’s a purpose and a reason for my life and my existence. He is guiding me on this path to show up in humanity to serve the beret. Life should be celebrated but I do respect those people that want to stay in lament 20 years, 30 years, or 40 years. People who want to be alone or who have identified being miserable as equating to their grief. I’m not here to pull and rip you out of that.

If you tell me you want to get out, I will stand here with the rope around my waist as you come out of the hot lava. You hold on to the rope and I’ll be here waving the light and saying, “I’m right here.” I have found three different things that tend to have people stuck in their grief. One, a person that feels like their loved one was a personal attack to them. They feel like God looked throughout humanity found me and said I’m taking your loved one because you’re getting punched.

That person is often going to be stuck because they have now made the creator of the universe attacking them. Where do you win from that? The second person that is using unhealthy coping skills and they’re often doing it in the shadows. They’re drinking privately. They’re doing drugs privately. They’re having sex and their effing their way through grief. They’re working out so hard but people that are using unhealthy coping skills.

The third is a person that isolate. They have decided, not about personality type. They have withdrawn themselves from life and they have now become a hermit because going anyplace that they went to with their spouse is too painful. I remember going to the grocery store and going down the Oreo cookie out and lose my whole chickadee because Mark loved Chip Ahoys and Oreos, but if I would have said, I’m not going to that or I’m not doing that. I’m not doing all those things. Do I not go and remember him?

Those people when I identify their explicitly operating in 1 or 3 or all of those things. I’m not the cup of tea for you because if I tell you that those are the things that are going to get you stuck and you’re asking me to help you get you unstuck but you want to remain doing all those three things. We’re not a good match. I will not be the grief coach for you because you determined you want realistic expectations and I’m not the girl for that.

I was out in California visiting my daughter for her birthday and I had the opportunity to connect with three widows I had met on TikTok. Amazing day. Those widows want to do more things with Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. They have ideas. They have things that they want to do with the organization and how can they do more? That’s what I want because I feel being a widow, I should be celebrated.

I laid up here in until death do you part. I should not be whisk away into a wearing dark clothing and act like I don’t exist anymore. I’m a whole vibrant person. If anything, I would think that some young people would want to come sit underneath and get some tutelage. Get some understanding and gain some knowledge on how to navigate life because they want to know what’s on the other side of that. How do I prepare? Love them. Don’t argue about the socks that are on the floor. Don’t worry about if they farted in the middle of the bed right after having sex. Don’t worry about that they forgot your birthday but they still love you because when they die, you’re not going to care.

Finding Strength And Guidance Through Faith

You’re going to go back and say, “Remember that stupid conversation that I had? I wish I never had it. I wish I never said that. I wished I just picked up the socks. In many cases, it is not almost biblical. It is biblical because in the Bible, it says, “Take care of the widowed and orphaned.”

That’s my little Post-It note. Widowhood Real Talk with Tina, this is non-profit and is not a religious based organization. Whatever your phase is, what it is your belief, I am here to support the beret. My relationship with God is the only reason why I am doing this because I believe this is what God has called me to do. Right here, are some verses that I put. It’s here to remind myself. Psalms 6:8-5, “God is a defender.”

The verse that is for me is 2 Corinthians 1:4, “Comfort those who are troubled by the comfort.” Which me and myself, I had been comforted by God. My ability to comfort hold space for other people’s based off of my relationship and what God has done for me. 1 Timothy 5:11-14, “Young widows.” You should remember. The word tells you that, versus some people to think that we supposed to burn our bodies after her husband died because we don’t get to live no more.

This is, that God is my defender, Psalms 6:8-5. My right to live and continue to exist, I feel like is in-charge in mandated from God to be able to do that. The Bible says to care for the widow. If you’re professing this faith and you’re not doing anything that the Bible says about your faith. What are you doing?

One of the things that I decided to do when I retire, I was like, “Do you know what I’m going to do?” You’re going to like this one. I’m going to learn Hebrew and I’m going to read the Bible in Hebrew.

There is something to be sacred for that. I have a translator.

That’s what I’m doing that.

When I read through the Bible and see it in that origin language and look at some of those words. There’s a difference.

It’s totally different.

I can see the book right there. That was one of the things when Mark passed that I spent a lot of time. I was like, “I’ve been saying I believe this thing. What is this look like now because this is the rubber hitting the road. What does this say?” I wanted to go back and read that. I’m not doing this for fun or for fancy fair. I’m placing all the eternity and commitment for this. I need to seek out my own soul, salvation, and fear and trembling. This is not something I’m resting to somebody else’s hands once a week. This is the long game for me.

In our age, everybody keeps saying, “What’s your story? What’s your experience? Tell me your journey.” While we’re doing that now and everybody gets on YouTube. They talk about themselves and they cry and they tell their stories. In the meantime, they’re not reading the stories, the real stories, and when you read those stories, there’s Moses, the hero. Let’s read a story about a hero. “We’re going to do Star Wars.” No, we’re going back to one of the original heroes.

I thought to myself, as I do that, I’m like, I would like to read it in the original language. I’m thinking, so then doing it. I feel that those stories, when you read those again, whether it’s the original language or you’re just reading them again and giving them thought and you think about them again. Suddenly, those stories start to replay again and again. You’re like, “We’re all having the same stories. There’s something about me in this story.”

I’m looking at stories and these are all the things that I do that I can’t necessarily share them with other people because they don’t get what I’m doing. I’ve got my little study buddy that I study with on Sunday. My girlfriend is saying, “You should go out for dinner and meet people.” I’m like, “I’m doing a study buddy on Sunday.” That’s satisfies me. What is the study buddy going to do for me? Probably not nothing. Never going to be in my house. Listen to Jersey. I’ll probably never meet her or maybe or maybe not. The point is, I’m not looking.

You’re not looking for a new companion.

I’m not looking for artificial activities.

You’re looking to do things that’s satisfying and please you. I hear you saying, “I don’t know how much time I have left but I’m going to do the things I enjoy because this is what I worked hard to do.” If I get to spend an abundant amount of time of studying the word and doing that and that brings me joy. I’m not hurting nobody. I’m not doing something. My happiness don’t need to look like what somebody else does.

I doubt that on my deathbed. When I die, I’m going to be like, “I should have gone to that restaurant.” I doubt that’s going to happen. Even this one, on my deathbed, “I should have taken that vacation.” Really? Who cares you? You’re going to die. You’re going. What does that memory o that vacation mean to you? While in the meantime, I’ll be like, “I’m glad I followed what I wanted to do.”

Would I like to travel? Yes. Would I like to travel alone? Absolutely not. Do I want to share my travels with somebody else? Yes. Can you do that now? No. Sad? Yes. Depressed? No. Move on. These are the real things of widowhood but these are the real things of life in general. You could be married with somebody and every vacation you take and be like, “He wants to go here. I want to do this. He’s going to do what he wants to do.

You could have that in real life and I’m sure people have that or I have to take my vacation on my own because he doesn’t want to do what I want to do or we’re going to Aruba again and whatever. There have been situations in my life where I have done things with my husband that haven’t been the best in the world. We had to do what we had to do.

That’s the majority of life.

That’s life. I’m able to come to terms and say, “What do you want to do that bucket list that everybody seems to talk about?” I’m like, “I don’t have a big bucket list.” I’m like, “What is on your bucket list? You’ve got to have something you want to do.” When it came down to it, I was like, I want to learn Hebrew and read the Bible with somebody. Alright, do it. I want to write a book. Do it. I’m like, what else?

Write a book about?

It’s along the lines of those stories.

We’re going to pick this up.

Another conversation next year. Maybe I’ve written another page in my book.

I think we will pick this up next. I’m going to put a pin.

Wouldn’t it be nice if a book was like written by that time?

I’m not going to answer that. I’m going to let you ask me one more question then we’re going to wrap up.

The Unique Experiences Of Widows At Different Ages

There’s a difference between a young widow and an older widow. Hopefully, an older widow is more mature.

I would say young widow have probably has small children at home and probably in her twenties.

Young women has so many loose ends. Within your network, are you finding you have a lot of these women?

The beautiful thing in this morbus scenario, we just had a big storm this season in Tampa. Two widows with daughters who age four were able to get together next from a meeting in between the Widowhood. The women and the men, because we have a men’s only grief support group that meets the second Thursday of the month. The network of people willing to connect and want community is huge.

When you find community that is not looking to gain anything from you but be there and be supportive is empowering. It is a nonprofit. I do have to have fundraisers. We’re applying for grant because it’s not cheap to produce a show that seen on fifteen different applications, edit it, provide a social content, and all the different events and things we have, so it is a nonprofit. We do have to solicit people for money and for donations. That reach, the content to go out, we’re in 105 different countries with over 3.8 million views.

When I saw that, I was like, “I was so happy to see that field.”

I’m like, “Bangladesh? There’s somebody in Bangladesh read this show?” Losing a loved one is universal.

Yes, it is and we’re all human.

That walk for love event that you participated in, to see that literally people sharing stories of their loved one or their loved one’s names and knowing that you are not alone and that community exists. We don’t have to be embarrassed about missing our loved one. We should be able to celebrate them.

That’s the point. If you have to celebrate with strangers, that’s okay.

When I first was going to start connecting with young widows, I thought it would be military-related because I’m in the Army. I’m thinking conflict but there are so many people, car accidents, different things, and work things and having more widows at the age of 26 to 30. I am finding and connecting with small children and different stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of that did come out of COVID and for whatever different reasons. I’m talking to a lot of widows now that are in that space.

That’s why we have a Discord. If anybody’s reading and they want to connect on the Discord because that’s not connected to a social media platform. That’s a space for people to connect. We have that because when you can’t sleep at 2:00 in the morning, you want someplace where you can connect and know somebody’s awake.

It’s a different grief when you’re young widow.

Looking at my son and seeing his dad in him as an adult is different than seeing my son as a minor and thinking about how do I raise him in his dad’s absence?

How do you tell a small child about mom and dad. My name neighbor had a four-year-old and her husband passed away. She couldn’t tell that child for a number of years. The daughter is saying, “Where’s daddy?” She’s lying to the child, “Daddy had to go away on business,” for as long as that four-year-old because the four-year-old has no concept of death and to tell the child, “Daddy died at a car accident.”

There are books and resources.

She needed to find the right time when she knew her daughter was going to be able to take it in without nightmares.

I know people who have learned that I have a widow who was pregnant when her husband passed. and how she introduced that into the child’s life from a very early age. There are ways to do it. On our website, we have a list of different books and resources talking about that from different perspectives as it relates to having that conversation. There are ways instead of having to fabricate it. It just depends on what your comfort level is as a deliverer of that information because children are more resilient than we give them credit for. Most of the time, it’s our ability as adults to not know how to navigate the difficult waters.

The funny thing is it didn’t take the daughter long to be able to put it together. I remember her saying to her mom, “I was talking to daddy and he told me to tell you he was okay.” This was before she told her the story that daddy was dead. Kids do have a way of knowing but it’s difficult. As I said, it is a whole bunch of moving parts for younger widows with children.

I think this whole thing is different moving parts for different age groups.

We know that but there’s a whole bunch of moving parts.

I think in our next conversation, I want to talk about your book and in-laws.

I never had in-laws.

I’m going to pause right there. I’m going to let you to wrap up this conversation.

We’re all unique and I do recommend and I should myself, be more active in your group. I’ve said this to myself at least once a month, like, “I need to connect with Tina.” “I need to get more involved.” “I got to do that,” and then, “I forgot to talk to Tina.” When you connected with me, I was like, “You see, God’s telling me to do this,” so he is. He’s bringing us together for a reason. I do need to get more involved. There you go. I know you have a grief for men, but I don’t know if you have other things that are remote.

On the second Thursday of the month, we have a men’s only. On the last Thursday of the month, I host a group, peer support group or people who are grieving. The one on the Thursday of the month is open to anybody. Men don’t talk already. I should say this. I have found that men who are grieving struggle more to find community than women do.

That is why I intentionally wanted to make a space for men only. The gentleman James Price who leads that group is a widower himself. When we spoke a lot and just felt like he would be a person that was a good fit for me and to have a space to go and talk and be with other men. The group that I host on the last Thursday of the month is open to anyone. Maybe you’ll start joining us and see you there.

Maybe because I remember I was joining it and for whatever reason, I fell out of the group but it probably would be good for me.

I would love to see you there. It may be an opportunity for you to give back. Not so much is needed for you.

Listening and being part of a group is a good human thing to do.

On that note, we say good bye.

That’s so much for having me. It was it was a pleasure.

Thank you.

 

Important Links

• International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Union
• United Auto Workers
• Widowhood Real Talk with Tina
• James Price
• Email and Coffee with Joi Brooks
• Joi Brooks on LinkedIn

 

About Joi Brooks

Explore the rich aroma, the perfect roast, and the delightful sip of my podcast, “Email and Coffee | A Digital Cafe.” Here, I curate conversations with captivating personalities, experts, and individuals who redefine the ordinary. Remember the “show about nothing”? Well Email and Coffee is the show about EVERYTHING. Intrigued? Let’s connect over a virtual coffee!

Beyond the cafe experience, I lead the Women in Email Marketing Mastermind—a meticulously crafted circle designed to nurture profound connections, amplify targeted objectives, celebrate triumphs, and obliterate obstacles.

In the realm of impactful, email marketing strategies for medium-sized enterprises, I strive for the perfect blend of gains and long-term sustainability. My commitment extends to empowering small business owners wrestling with time constraints, offering strategic guidance at every delightful sip of their journey. It’s not just marketing; it’s rich strategy infused with creative finesse.