Dealing with your loved one’s last moments is not easy, but you have to make it count not just for your own peace, but also for the person lying on their deathbed. We hear the experiences and insights of Gabrielle Jimenez, a palliative care nurse who also works as a death doula. She discusses why communication, listening, and validation are essential to help people get through the end-of-life moments of their loved ones to avoid living with regrets. Gabrielle also explains how you can find joy despite the sadness and why giving yourself permission to cry is part of anyone’s grieving journey.

I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.  

Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.

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Glimpse Into The Life Of A Death Doula With Gabrielle Jimenez

Voices Of Widowhood: Healing Through The Holidays

Hospice, palliative care, death doula, what does that even mean? In this conversation with Gabby during this series that we have, Voices of Widowhood: Healing Through the Holidays, these are the things that you’re going to learn. How do you show up when someone is in that bed and they’re about to take their last breath and is close to the holidays? What happens to your identity crisis when they leave? Should you still be laughing? Are you allowed to cry when you’re in the room with them? Can you go through the holidays? Anyway, let’s get into this conversation.

  

  

Gabby, welcome to the Widowhood.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me to the widowhood. If someone could see the ticker tape that went across your head, you go, “Widowhood,” like, “Yes, thank you,” what would that look like if we got the inside version of your mind?

You have to remember that I speak to Grievers all the time, and so there’s nothing about that that surprises or startles or makes me uncomfortable. I feel like I get it. I spend a lot of time with widows and widowers because I was there when the last breaths were taken, and so I get to know them from that starting point, some of which I’ve stayed in contact with, some of which have remained good friends. Yeah, that’s a word that is in my vocabulary.

Understanding Hospice Palliative Care And Death Doula

I love that because this miniseries that you decide to be a part of, Voices of Widowhood: Healing Through the Holidays, because you have that experience and that place where you have walked side by side with people in the most difficult times, I knew your voice in this conversation, speaking to people through the holidays was going to be important. Let’s talk about what you do first as far as being a Death Doula and what that means, and so they can understand why your voice is so important to this process.

I’m a Hospice and Palliative Care Nurse, actually. I’ve been with about 2,500 people at the end of their life.

That is just a big statement. We cannot go past that quickly.

I have been with over 2,500 people as they navigated the different stages of the diagnosis to death. I have witnessed about 1,500 last breaths.

From what timeline does that span?

Since 2016.

That is a very short period of time.

Yes, it is. I used to manage a hospice house with ten beds and it was very much a revolving door of people coming in and dying and leaving and then new people coming in. At one time, there could be three deaths in a day. It could vary from 1 to 3, sometimes at the same time. That definitely is why there have been so many, was because it was a house in which people came to a lot.

Also, as a field nurse, I’ve worked in hospice and palliative care, so I see them from diagnosis to death and then on their grief journey. As a doula, the thing about doulas is that they have the luxury of time. They’re nonclinical, but they can be there with someone who is going through that process and because you have the luxury of time, you can stay longer, which allows my visits to linger. I can spend time with them after last breaths as well, which is the grief journey.

I want to circle back to someone that has zero knowledge of the different terms that you’ve used as far as the clinical part services that you provide and the death doula and people trying to understand what is palliative care and all of those things that you just expressed. Can we circle back and expand on those a little bit more, please?

Absolutely. Let’s start with a person is declining from age or illness and there’s symptoms that need to be managed and perhaps medications and treatments. This is where palliative care would come in. Palliative care is comfort care. It is often provided through hospitals and medical facilities. Some hospice teams, some hospice companies have palliative care within their practice.

When the symptoms become too hard to manage or they’ve chosen not to do any more treatments, or it is determined that they have six months or less to live, then that is when it would be suggested that they start hospice. I say this a lot. Hospice is not a diagnosis. It is a plan of care for the diagnosis. The hospice team, which consists of a doctor, a nurse who is the case manager, a social worker, a chaplain, a home health aide, and a volunteer come together and collaboratively help support the person in the bed as well as the people at the bedside.

Hospice is basically six months or less to live, but some people get on hospice and they die the next day. Some people, it’s a few weeks, some people it is far longer. As long as there are symptoms and the doctor feels that you are appropriate and you follow the protocols, there are a lot of hospice protocols, then that person will receive hospice care.

A doula is nonclinical. They’re called death doulas or end of life doulas or sacred passage doulas. There’s a lot of them out there. They are not state mandated. There is no license or certification. Any certificate that a doula has is from the company that provided the training. You are not certified, and again, it is not state mandated. Basically, a doula can do things however they want to. I like to say they’re a companion. I describe myself as someone who would choreograph your very last dance and we come together.

I would start with someone early on, maybe just out of curiosity, maybe they are just want to learn more about the death and dying process. I would start with them then help them face their own mortality. If there’s been a diagnosis, support them. I also act as a hospice liaison so I can tell when I think that someone is ready for hospice and I’ll help them get that process started, sort of the liaison between all of the moving parts. I help support them often being there at the last breath and along their grief journey.

You have a plan. It’s early stages. It’s during the dying process and then it’s grief. A doula can walk alongside you on any of that and stay with you for as long as needed. Hospice, however has time constraints. They have to see certain amount of patients in a day so they can’t spend all day with one person. There’s a lot of things that have to be worked through to make sure that the families are cared for in the way that they need to. I think a doula can do that and help navigate all of that for them. I do not think a doula is a replacement for the hospice team.

Sometimes people hear the word death doula and my first recognition of that word was like when someone’s giving birth. It’s interesting, it’s at the beginning and end of the life cycle, that same word is used, but people may feel like, “I have this so I don’t need these other roles. This is going to be enough.” What about that statement would you want to share more information to someone?

Thank you. I think that’s where the misconception is. I think people think, “I’ve got this doula, she’s so great, she’s helped us with everything. We don’t need anybody else.” I can appreciate that because I do a lot too in my role. Even though I am a nurse, as a doula, I can’t be a nurse. As a doula, I’ve had to create a language that allows me to speak to the family and to the person in the bed in a way that is nonclinical.

I’ll take something that I know as a nurse, as a hospice nurse specifically, that I can translate to them without it being clinical, but can help support them in the way that they need. Even though I am a nurse as a doula, and I can’t do both, I feel it is almost necessary, maybe even mandatory, that you bring in the hospice team because as a doula, I don’t have what they have.

The hospice team isn’t just a group of people, it’s also resources. It’s the equipment that is needed. It is the supplies that are needed. It’s the medications that need to be gone over. It’s the care, it’s the insurance and the protocols and the home health aid and how to get a caregiver and how to plan a funeral. Yes, a doula can actually help guide people with all of that, but from my opinion and my perspective, and since I do have experience as both, I think that your team would benefit from having a doula, but it is not a replacement for the team.

How Insurance Can Cover Hospice Palliative Care

Thank you. You talked about a couple of things. What would you want to expand on a little bit more as far as the insurance? Sometimes people hear hospice and they’re thinking, “That’s just going to be pain medication they’re going to get to that they don’t suffer until they pass.” It seems that there’s more that people need to be aware of that hospice can provide.

Yes. I teach a hospice masterclass for that reason. People will say, “My mom started hospice, they gave her morphine and she died.” “My mom started hospice. They stopped all of her medications and she died.” I can appreciate that there’s a lot of stress and anxiety that hovers over the end of life and there’s a lot of unknown and uncertainty and curiosity.

If we don’t address it and if we don’t educate the families, then they’re going to be out on their own flailing about, and they shouldn’t have to do that. I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions. I think people, if they knew what was available to them, they would probably start sooner. In fact, almost every person I’ve spoken to that waited to start hospice has said, “I wish we would’ve done this sooner.”

Insurance is one of the things. I am not good with insurance, so I probably couldn’t answer those questions for you. One thing that people don’t realize is that there are things in your insurance, not all, but some that will cover things like respite care. If you needed a caregiver and you just needed them for a couple of days because you needed to go somewhere or do something, or maybe you were having a a minor surgery, you were going to need to take time off, you could check your insurance to find out if it covers that.

Insurance also covers some for caregiving, some of your medical expenses, some of your medications. It also covers sometimes funeral expenses. I think it just depends on your insurance, but I think it’s really important that people know what they have available to them. I don’t understand that stuff. I always refer people to their social worker because they know so much and they do know how to find resources that can make this a little easier for the family.

Listening And Being Present During End-Of-Life Moments

Thank you. Speaking of making it easier for the family and the 1,500 people you have walked through their final dance, I love that term, what are some ways that someone is reading this conversation and they have a friend who has a family member that is on hospice and they’re trying to understand how do I walk beside them in this process or that person that has the family member and they’re trying to use the language to tell other people how to walk with them on this process?

  

  

I don’t think anyone has ever asked me that. I have some basic things that I follow. They’re my core principles. One is you listen, not to fix, not to judge, not to compare your story to theirs. Not to say, “I know how you’re feeling,” because we can’t possibly know how they feel. Listen to hear and validate their words. Let them know that they’ve been heard.

If we did more of that, I truly believe the person in the bed would be more forthright with their feelings because often, they hold back for fear that they’re going to make someone else feel uncomfortable. I think listening is really important. I think meeting someone where they are not where you think they should be or want them to be is important. Being nonjudgmental, like one of the things that I say very blatantly and I have received some kickback from is that I am not going to judge you.

If we listen more to a dying person, they would be more forthright with their feelings. Share on X

Honestly, it’s none of my business who you pray to, who you kiss, who you love, who you vote for. I kind of a little bit on the who you vote for, but also who you pray to and how you want to live and how you die, and how you grieve. This is about you. When I agree to stand beside you, it’s all of you. I’m going to meet you where you are, not where I think you should be or want you to be.

The reason for that is because when someone is dying, actually, when someone is given a terminal diagnosis, or even when they start beginning to feel that their body is starting to decline, their autonomy, their voice and their choices are taken from them. Everyone is out there around them telling them what to do, how to feel, which to do next, what not to do. They’re sitting there going, “I’m still here. I have a voice.”

I think our role is to listen, like I said, and to meet them where they are because if we do that, we are reminded that this is not about us. Even though we’re going to have a feeling or an opinion or an emotional reaction to some of it or all of it, it’s not about us. The kindest and most compassionate thing we can do is turn up the volume so that that person knows that they are being heard by everyone.

There are a couple others that are really important to me. Presence is very important. What that means to me is stay off your phone, turn your phone off, be right there. If you’ve got stuff going on, we’ve all got stuff going on, don’t bring it in the room. Don’t bring your stuff in their space. That includes the way you would do this. If you are in that bed and you are absolutely positive that you want spa music being played, or prayers being read, that works for you, but that person in the bed might not want that.

We have to be really mindful of their needs and their wants. The kindest thing we could do is ask them what it is when they have a voice and they can tell us so that we can honor it. If they listen to Jeopardy every day at 3:00, put on Jeopardy, ask them what music they want to hear, ask them if they want anybody in the room or the conversation. If we had that conversation sooner upfront and open and honest without fear and honoring curiosity, imagine the difference that we could make in their final moments because we would be honoring their wishes. We would be listening to what they said and doing it in the way that’s important to them.

Validating A Person’s Feeling Before They Pass

You mention also the idea of validating what someone is saying so they know that you are listening. I feel as if we’re in a time where people are listening to figure out what’s the next thing they’re going to say as soon as a person stops speaking. Would you be willing to like just do an impromptu exercise of like how someone could really listen and validate somebody’s feelings? People may not have a clue where to start.

I think it starts with looking them in the eyes. I am really guilty this, and it’s something I’ve been working on myself since doing this work. When someone is talking, I’m the person there thinking, “I’ve got to say this. I’ve got to remember to say this.” My head drifts off and I go to a different place and I lose a little bit of focus. I’m so focused on what I want to say because you’ve triggered a thought in my head that I don’t know if I’m really hearing that person.

I’m not even going to say that I’m good at it. I am better at it than I used to be. The first thing I do is I look them in the eyes and I stop everything and I just listen. I don’t go to this place of planning what to say because I try to listen in a way that does not set me up for having to say anything at all. Sometimes it’s not about our response, it’s simply about the availability that we’ve offered them to be there for those moments.

When someone is dying, you may be the last person they talk to, your eyes might be the last they look into. If that’s the case, we need to make darn sure that we are so present for them. It means really hearing them. That starts with not coming into their space with distraction. When they talk, if you’re concerned about something or curious about something they said, you can say, “I hear you about that. Maybe you can elaborate. I want to know more so I can really help you with this.”

When they ask you a question, I get asked all the time, “What do you believe? Where we go after we die?” I don’t have a strong faith, so I have my own opinions, but I’m not going to project that onto somebody else. If they ask me, I might tell them, but I also might add to that, “What do you think about that? Where do your thoughts go? Are you afraid? Are you nervous? Are you uncertain? Have you made peace with this?” I give them permission to be honest and vulnerable.

Dealing With Your Own Anxieties And Fears

Thank you. The idea of fear and anxiety, any recommendations for the person before they enter the room where they can place or deal with their own fears, their own anxiety? Not only are they in the room for the person’s there, they’re often thinking about their own mortality. What does that look like? You know as well as I do that this conversation about death has so much space to be normalized and someone reading this conversation may go, “I’m afraid to go in that room and be with them. I love them, but the death thing, I can’t.” What are some ways that they can deal with themselves so they can do a better job of walking beside their loved ones?

One of the things I do, I call it the three breaths. Before I walk into someone else’s space, I do this thing and it’s usually in my car or before I walk up to their door where I take three breaths, one at a time with a little space in between. I take it in and I hold it for a moment and I let it go. I usually do it with breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. I, when I breathe it out, I imagine that it’s going all the way out through my body, through the soles of my feet, releasing anything that is causing me distress. It could be work issues, it could be the patient I might have seen before, or the people I’m going to see after. It might be relationship issues or whatever. We all have them, but when we walk into their space, we can’t bring it with us.

I have learned to shake it off before I go in so that I left it out there. If you do that, it makes it easier to come in. Also, I want to point out one of the members of the hospice team that I think are probably the best of the listeners is the chaplain. Whether you have a strong faith or not, they’re not going to come in and tell you that you have to believe in God or if you don’t, something bad will happen to you.

That is not their role. Their role truly is to listen and like I say, meet you where you are. They’re so good at that. They also can address the fears, but not just of the person in the bed, the people at the bedside. If you’re feeling them, if you’re nervous and uncertain or curious, that’s when it’s important that you ask the questions. The chaplain is a really good source for that because they have this really deep wisdom that makes you feel safe.

Give Yourself Permission To Cry

Thank you. The person has done the breath, they’ve gone into the room. This is someone they love. Are they permitted to cry? Are they permitted to be emotional? Are they supposed to hold that until they leave the room?

I tell people to cry, whatever you feel, because I believe whether a person is responsive and can talk or not, they have a sense of awareness about them that lets them know. They know their body’s shutting down. They can feel it. They know what’s happening in the room. They feel the energy, they know you’re sad. I have seen patients say, “Stop crying. I don’t want you to cry here at the bedside. I don’t want to see that.” That’s fair, but this moment is final. You don’t get a do-over. This is it. If you’ve got something to say, that is the time to say it. If you’re going to cry, it’s okay because you are sad. You have to have some sense of decorum. Don’t throw yourself on the bed and beg them to stay because that just makes them more uncomfortable.

I have witnessed that as well. I’ve witnessed people tell me not to tell them they’re dying because they don’t want them to know. I think to myself, “They do know.” You come into their room and you act like everything’s fine, but everything is not fine. When last breaths are taken, if you didn’t say the things, if you didn’t share your feelings, your emotions and all of that, then you’re going to carry that with you for the rest of your life. That makes grieving harder.

I tell people to tell the truth. I say, “If you’re struggling, let them know.” Also, let them know that you will make peace with this, that you will take care of yourself. If it’s a married couple or a child, make sure I always let them parents know, “Don’t worry, we’ll look after them,” or the spouse, “Don’t worry, I’m going to be okay. The kids are going to look out for me.”

Whomever it is in that bed, I think that before they go, most people, not all, need to know that they made a difference, that they are loved, that they matter, that they made an impact on your life, that you will never stop saying their name or telling their story. I cry at the bedside. The people who are saying goodbye should feel comfortable to do that too. Sometimes they might be asked not to, in which case, they need to step out of the room and that’s hard too. Whatever you do, don’t forget to say goodbye or thank you or I love you because those are the last words they’ll take with them. In your heart, you’ll know those were the last that you said.

Do Not Hold Back On Saying Your Last Words

The idea of not having regret for things unsaid is much stronger and heavier than people will ever be able to consider until they’re in that space. Some people don’t take that opportunity to have those final words, to have closure. Any recommendations for those people that are reading this conversation and the regret is heavy for the things that they wish they would’ve said.

The regret is heavy on both sides. I see it a lot. I think people who are dying suddenly become very aware of all the things that they didn’t do or the things that they said that they wish they hadn’t. That’s really hard for them. Part of the grief journey is letting some of that go before last breaths, because it’s really hard to take with you.

I have mentioned this to so many people, “I want you to know this, that they hear you whether they are awake or are not, whether they’re responsive or not, everything you say, they take with them. This is your opportunity.” I know this for a fact, not just because I’ve been doing this for so long and I’ve been saying it for years, but when my brother was dying, I was at his bedside.

I hadn’t talked to him in 5 or 6 years. We had had a big fight. I didn’t know what he would want at his bedside. I didn’t know anything about it. This happened so fast, it wasn’t anything we could plan for. I remember every day at his bedside, I told him I was sorry. I just kept saying I was sorry. The fight was his doing, but I was sorry. I was sorry I’d wasted so much time. I am sorry I didn’t try harder. I was sorry I just let it be and gave up. I offered forgiveness and I accepted unsaid forgiveness. I said all the things that I needed to.

The day before he died, he woke up. They took him off a ventilator, they took him off the oxygen, he was awake. I said, “Ben, I was here every day.” He said, “I am sorry too.” Not everybody gets that. That does remind me and it makes me feel confident when I tell a family member, “He hears everything you’re saying.” With that knowledge, you can give them all the things that you needed to. Sometimes it’s an apology, sometimes it’s forgiveness, sometimes it’s just I love you and thank you and goodbye. That opportunity is there and I think it’s beneficial for everyone that they take advantage of that.

When that last breath is taken, one of the other things that people struggle with, and this adds to the weight of their grief, is when somebody dies and you are not there. You’ve been at the bedside, you’ve done as much as you can almost every day. You’re there every single day. You’re doing all the things and you fall asleep at the bedside or you go take a shower or you walk out of the room to go and get something.

You go home because they’re in a facility and you go home to go to sleep and the facility calls and says “There’s been a change in condition.” Now you’re on your way back and just before you get in to their room, the last breath is taken. This is a heavy weight that people carry. “I abandoned them. I walked away for five minutes and they died when I wasn’t there.”

I truly believe that there is a sense of awareness. They hear you, they know you’re there and they know that you’ve been there. They know that you’ve provided care, that you advocated for them, that you stood at their bedside every day. If you couldn’t be there, you made the phone calls or wrote the letters or did facetime or just held a phone up to their ears so they could hear, they know that.

They don’t take with them who is there at last breath. They take with them who is there all along. I think people need to know that because there’s this stress that they put on themselves. “I should have been there in that last breath.” I don’t think that’s necessary. Most people don’t want an audience. They don’t want that to be the last thing you see. Maybe they want privacy. Maybe they waited until you walked out that door. I think it’s important to trust your words will bring comfort, even if they’re difficult words to say.

Your words will bring comfort to anyone in their end-of-life moments, even if they are difficult words to say. Share on X

For the person who didn’t say the words, who held back, any recommendations for them on how they find closure after the breath has been taken?

That’s a lot harder because there’s so much regret like, “Why didn’t I say it?” I have that with both my parents. I did not know then what I know now. I would’ve done things so differently. I wasn’t really close with them. I was literally standing away from their bed when they both died. I didn’t say anything. I didn’t hold their hand. I didn’t even cry. I didn’t feel, and I will never get that back. What I do, because I think this is the doula in me, is I do a ritual. I do a candle lighting ritual where I light a candle and I talk to it as though it’s them. I tell them how I feel. I say the I’m sorrys and the things that I wish I could have said. I sit with it for a moment.

I let it sit inside me and I hold it and I honor it and I learn to make peace with it. I blow the candle out and I watch the smoke as it swirls away. I don’t stop watching that smoke until it’s gone. When it’s gone, I believe that my message has been received. With that candle, I continue doing my rituals. Whether it’s grief rituals or messages that I want to send to someone who has died, I will do it with that same candle because I continue using the candle until it’s done.

Dealing With Identity Crisis After A Loved One’s Passing

I’m so glad I asked you that question. That sounds beautiful. When someone has taken their last breath, the person that remains may feel like their identity has been taken away, shifted. I would dare say the person that is in that bed is feeling the identity crisis also. Would you be able to speak to both of those people?

I wrote a blog called Identity Theft, and it is about the person who survived, the person who’s alive, the person that will carry the grief, the person that said goodbye, and now they have to get to know who they are, the who that they are, that without that person. Sometimes the people that say goodbye have been together with their partner for 70 years, “Who am I now?”

This goes to widow and widows and widowers and the fact that now all of a sudden, like he paid all the bills or she did all the cooking, or she knew all of these things. I don’t know how to do this. They did everything together. They were on golf teams or played tennis or went for walks or sat on the couch and drank coffee. Whatever they did, they had a routine. Now all of a sudden that routine is not there and the chair is empty and the there’s only one cup of coffee on the counter. Who am I now? That’s hard.

In some ways, it can be, I don’t want to use the word fun necessarily, but there is some sense of joy as you get to know this new version of yourself. Maybe trying things that you wouldn’t have because your partner wasn’t interested or maybe learning new things about yourself so that you can grow and evolve. That’s also lined maybe with guilt because maybe I shouldn’t be smiling or happy or having fun. I have to sit in this dark sadness for the rest of my life.

I don’t agree with that. I think we’re allowed to find joy, but learning this new version of you can be really hard and moving through your life. I’ve talked to people who have lost a partner and they say, “I don’t even know what to do when I come home. I don’t like to drive. I don’t want to be in my house alone. I don’t want to make dinner anymore. Nothing I used to do is the same.” You lose your identity.

Why You Should Not Anticipate Joy

I wanted the first part of this conversation for the people in this community to know that you understand exactly from the perspective of serving them how they feel. As you speak about joy and having this conversation for the holidays, everybody’s happy, or at least they look like it from every social media post they have seen.

This person has just said goodbye to their loved one. Maybe in the beginning of the year, this may be the first holiday season without them, or it could have literally been a week ago. How would they even creep into the idea of joy? What would that look like for them in perspective than what they thought the word may have meant versus the version of joy they may get to experience now?

I think what’s fair to say is that you shouldn’t anticipate joy. You shouldn’t say, “When am I going to feel joy,” or, “I’ll do this so I can feel joy.” I think you have to go through life after this death and give yourself permission to welcome it should it come, to not stop doing the things that you used to love doing. Of course it’s different now because they’re not with you. I get that. You still have interests. You still have things you like to do. You’re going to do them differently.

I think people need to give themselves permission to welcome moments of joy. They’re going to be wrapped very tightly with the sadness as well. That doesn’t go away. People say it gets better with time. I don’t agree with that. I have had so much personal loss that the years, the anniversaries, I say that each anniversary is a mile marker on a track we are going to go around for the rest of our lives.

It’s not just the death anniversary. It’s the weddings, it’s the birthdays, it’s the memories, our first date, our first this. This was the first day he learned how to walk or talk if it’s your child. There are so many things that we go back and remember. Grief is like this calendar that has been blown up triple size with these big spotlights saying, “Remember, this day is coming up.” You go through the months and you come back around and it’s like Groundhog Day all over again and it’s hard.

I think we’re so stuck in our sadness that we don’t give ourselves permission to find joy. What I think is really important is that you don’t look at the joy is taking away your grief from missing this person. Your joy is about finding reasons to make your heart smile and sitting with that. We’re allowed to like going for walks and drinking coffee and looking at the clouds and maybe going to a movie and maybe laughing with our friends. We’re allowed to do that. Maybe joy isn’t the correct word for it all the time. Maybe it’s just seeing the light through the darkness.

We are so stuck in our sadness that we fail to give ourselves permission to find joy. Share on X

Why Forgetting Your Loved Ones Who Passed Is Impossible

The person going through the holidays and their person has passed, they can experience the light, some happiness and joy and still miss their person. Both can exist. The idea of seeing it’s not supposed to replace it. I believe that that is sometimes the underlying thought that if I’ve laughed, I’ve forgotten about them. If I went out to the holiday party and they weren’t there, that means I’ve forgotten that they no longer exist.

I think it’s utterly impossible to forget, even if it was somebody you didn’t like, but you were close to, their life has intertwined with yours. We remember them. That does not just go away. I think there’s some misconceptions that we have to rewire our brain to go, “Those are just things that people said, but now that I’m in this space. The truth is they will remain with me some form or fashion forever.”

There are days sometimes where you feel good and you realize, “I didn’t feel a sense of sadness today.” You start wondering, “I hope I’m okay with that. I don’t want to be punished for that in some way.” I think that that is a big misconception. We’re never going to get over them. It doesn’t work that way. There are times, even for me with my sisters, she died years ago. I’ll have these brief moments many years later where I think, “I can’t call Laura. What was I thinking?” My brother or my son’s father or some of my friends who’ve died. I had two friends die in 2025, one in January and one in March. I still go to the phone to call them.

I live my life because I have to. I don’t stop grieving them though. I miss them. I find ways to bring them up in conversation. I write. I write a lot. I’ve written a book about my grief journey and then I’ve written poems because that helps me. I think having a creative outlet is really healthy in honoring your grief because your emotions, there’s something that happens equally as when you’re happy, as when you’re sad. Whatever heaviness you’re feeling, being creative, it might be painting, drawing, writing, singing, working in your garden or doing something that you can see, touch, hear and feel whether inside or truly feel it. There is comfort in that. Would what I call that joy? Yes.

Get In Touch With Gabrielle And Buy Her Books

I would too. If someone wanted to connect with you, do you have a community that they can reach out to you and if so, what is it called?

I am The Hospice Heart. I have a community on Facebook. It has 160,000 people. That doesn’t make me popular. It just gives you an idea of how many people are dying, caring for someone who’s dying, working in the end-of-life field or grieving. I do a lot about grief because I’m grieving. I write about grief all the time. That page is The Hospice Heart, it’s on Facebook, but if you go to my website, it has everything there. That’s TheHospiceHeart.net. I have classes that I teach, I have podcasts that I’ve done. All my blogs are on there, my books are on there. It’s really a great resource. There’s a lot of free offerings on there to help support people.

Thank you. The books that you’ve written, what are they and how would they help someone?

I’ve written ten books in total, but the two books that would help relative to grief, one of them is called Healing A Grieving Heart. I wrote that while my brother was in the hospital for eighteen days. I started writing it then and I wrote after he died because I experienced so much from that. I had started writing poetry early on, but it just increased when he died. My other book is, It Never Gets Easier to Say Goodbye and that is a book of poetry. Both were what I needed to do to help me work through my grief.

The Kindest Thing You Can Do For A Grieving Person

I like to surprise people and ask them if they have a question of me. I’ve asked you a lot of questions. Sometimes there may be something simmering. Any questions of me?

That’s good. I like the way you do this. I’ve been doing this thing called Five Days of Grief Tips and each one, I say things, and I’ve been posting them on the Facebook page. Sometimes it’s about things not to say to grievers and just little tips and tools about grief. One thing that I don’t talk about is, what is the kindest thing that you have heard from someone from relative to comforting you on your grief journey?

The kindest thing that I’ve heard is someone say, “Let me know what you want me to do. They actually do.”

It’s not just a gesture that’s not going to be followed up with. They actually do what they say they’re going to do. That’s huge because we can say it until we’re blue in the face, but are you going to actually do it? Most people, if you ask them how they’re doing, they’re going to say they’re fine because they don’t want to burden you with the fact that they’re not fine. When you say, “Do you need anything,” they’re going to say no.

I was polar opposite. In fact, I used to have lunch with the same group of people. They knew my husband, we were close. We got to the lunchroom table. I said, “Stop asking me how I’m doing because when you ask me how I’m doing, I’m going over everything that’s happened. At the end of the day, if you haven’t brought Mark back, I’m doing horrible. I know you guys love me, but what I need you to do is ask me how am I doing right now because that’s really what you want to know. You want to know at this moment, how am I doing.” The guys were like, “We’re about to talk about feelings now.” There was like 4 guys and then 2 other ladies. We would have lunch almost every day if our schedules worked out.

They listened. The next day they said, “How are you doing right now?” Unfortunately, the burden of the griever has to convey to the people that love them what they need. They do know how to show up. At the same time, if the griever is not accustomed to articulating and sharing and being vulnerable and transparent, they will often clam up and go, “I’m doing fine,” because that’s the easy way out. Eventually, when you tell everybody you’re fine and they stop asking and they stop caring, you set the precedence for that. Now you turn around and become upset because no one’s asking anymore how you’re doing and you’re bleeding out internally.

Exactly. Here’s the thing, everyone grieves differently. We live differently. We die differently. We grieve differently. Unless you tell me what you need, I’m not going to know. I think our approach to grievers should be something like, “I don’t know what would work for you, but I want to do something for you. I want to be here for you. What would be the best thing I could do for you?”

Everyone grieves differently. Unless you tell other people what you need, they will not know how to help you. Share on X

Instead of saying, “How are you,” I love the, “How are you today?” That’s specific. “How are you?” “How do you think I am? My husband just died. I mean really, you want some details? I’ll give them to you.” I think of Jack Nicholson, “You can’t handle the truth.” I think that’s the truth. People are afraid to ask it because they don’t want to know. What if we got more comfortable in saying to the griever, “I’m not in your shoes and what worked for me might not work for you. What would be the best thing I could do for you?”

A Few Good Men was the very first movie my late husband and I ever saw. If you know this person well enough to make yourself uncomfortable to ask the question, what do they need, I actually say, “Don’t ask me something. I can hardly think. I can hardly figure out what I’m supposed to do next. If you know me well enough, do the thing that you know that would be helpful. If you knew my husband took out the trash, you show up on Tuesday and take the trash to the corner.”

“If you knew that my husband put gas in the car, come take care of the gas. If you know I am now a single mom of three kids that have activities everywhere, make yourself uncomfortable and say, ‘I’m going to take such and such to their activity,’ until we don’t want it to happen anymore because if you say, ‘I’m only going to do it for a year,’ they’re going to be dead the next year.”

Now you just set them up for they’ve been relaxed and now they don’t come back. They’re going to need you for the long game. If we used to watch movies and drink a glass of wine, I don’t want to always talk about dead stuff. I want you to come over and watch TV and we drink the glass of wine, then we may not talk about it. Whatever it is you say you’re going to do, do it.

I think that’s valuable advice. I wish we could become a society where when someone you love dies, you can feel comfortable saying, “Can you please just fill my car up with gas on Tuesdays? Can you go to the grocery store for me? Can you pick up my kids from school? I can only do this right now.” Why are we so afraid to ask for help or to admit that we are struggling? Why can’t we be that community that says, “I need your help.”

I did and my community leaned in. I remember this one guy, it’s funny. He said, “I wasn’t able to go to the funeral. Is there anything you need me to do?” Literally 24 hours before he called, I was in our backyard trying to rake the leaves because Mark raked the leaves. If my neighbors were looking, I know I looked bad. I had the rake and I had on his gloves and I’m crying. There’s this 0.175-acre yard. I’m like, “This was so dumb to move here. Everything makes no sense.”

I just threw the rake down, went in the house and this friend calls me. I said, “I need my leaves raked in the backyard.” He was like, “Okay.” He said that he had never been to our house. He came. He said, “Let me check on my wife.” He was there until he could not see and he took care of those leaves. It may seem just like raking, but that was huge for me.

I want to applaud you for being so transparent because not everyone can do that. I think about it myself. I’m not married right now, but if I had a partner and they died, I think I would be the person that says, “No, I’m okay. I don’t need anything,” because I’ve never been comfortable with asking for help. I’m not good at it now. I don’t know how good I would be if I were in your shoes. I think that’s a common reality.

I think we’re afraid to admit that we need help because, in some way, perhaps we think we’ve failed somehow. The thing about grief is that that’s not a failure, that’s a human experience, a reaction that that is understandable. You’re allowed to be sad, mad, frustrated, scared and all of the above. You could teach so many people, Tina. Seriously, you could teach the widows the widowers to ask for help. The people on the other side of that saying, “What can I do? I’m here. I’m going to show up and I’m going to follow through.” I wish more people could hear what you’ve shared because we would be a lot better together if we did that.

How Grief Can Change You

Thank you. I will say this was a learned experience. I had breast cancer before my husband passed. People probably thought I was going to pass before Mark because I had breast cancer. I was in the army for 21 years. I’m used to running and doing different things. I could not walk to my mailbox. Before this, my son and I were out running a 5K every Saturday just to start the day off. Now my son is picking me up and putting me in bed because my brain was racing so much. I took sleep medication and fell asleep on the floor in the kitchen. I thought it was a pillow.

That humbled me, that humbled me when we had a roster in the dining room of who was coming to take me to treatment so Mark could keep being a dad, go to work and people could come and show up. When my arm was swollen from everything. A friend massaged me. That humbled me. That experience happened, started a year and a half or two before my husband passed. I was pumped and primed to go. I do not know I need help. No, I cannot do this. I had been fileted open already to a point where I’m not doing this by myself. This is not what’s happening.

That was your grief training.

Literally it was, and to that regard, the first big loss for me was our pet. We had a dog named Bandit. We had to put her down. I had a miscarriage. From there, I got fired once from a job and then from there was the breast cancer, and then this with my husband. I go, “God was kind to let that build up and not let it just smack me in the face from the beginning with that.” I didn’t have the language when the dog died, that that was grief or the miscarriage. When the breast cancer came, I was like, “Yeah.”

I had a blog and would post and would share because so many people were asking questions. I was like, “I can’t answer this same question every day, but if I put a blog up and then people can read it.” It starts giving me the voice to go, “I can trust people to show up.” The people not only being transparent, as you said, there’s two sides to that. Being able to trust the person to do what they’re going to say because once I’ve made myself vulnerable, if you don’t show up, I’m locking this down. I’m not allowing anyone else to make me feel this way. My spouse already died, let alone me open up and then you don’t show up. I don’t need that type of disappointment.

We learn quickly who we can trust and who we can’t when we’re grieving. It’s the ones that start backing away because they’re uncomfortable with our grief. It goes back to the identity thing because the you that you were then is so different now. That includes the friendships you had and what was most important to you.

You don’t realize it until you look back. “When I look back three years ago, we were all hanging out and we were all laughing. Now I never hear from you anymore.” I think that grief changes us, death changes us. You have been through a lot of big things. I think what that did was prepared you a little bit. It didn’t soften your pain, but it allowed you to learn how to express it in a way that will help others, which is what you do.

I’m only saying this because that’s how I feel about my brother. I’ve had a lot more deaths than just my brother. When he died, I felt something shift inside of me like, “I am going to use this experience to help others.” I didn’t feel that before. I’ve felt sadness before and I felt lost in a deep, painful way. I feel like he’s with me all the time. Keep in mind, we weren’t close, we hadn’t talked.

I don’t know if this is your experience as well, especially after everything that you’ve been through, but I feel like all of this, everything from my childhood to now, it was all necessary in order for me to be doing what I’m doing now, which comes down to meeting people where they’re at. I’m not going to say to you or anyone else, “I know how you feel,” but I have been in similar shoes, which makes me a little more accepting of you, what you’re experiencing and what you need. You seem to be coming from that same perspective. You’ve been through a lot and you are not going to tell someone you know how they feel, but you do appreciate what they’re feeling in a way that makes you a little more empathetic and sensitive to the myriad of emotions that we have when we’re grieving.

I would agree with that. One thing you said that makes my situation unique in comparison, oftentimes people do lose their friends, their family members. Friends, my family members, they showed up from the moment and they have continued. I have not lost a single friend. When I hear people speak about the loss of relationship, it hurts so bad to hear that because that’s when you need your people the most. This is when you are at your weakest moment.

Going back to something you said early on about when we walk into the room with the person that is in that bed, to put ourself aside and realize they are dying and we are showing up for them and putting our discomfort, that same level of care is so needed for the griever, for the person that’s supposed to support them, that they put their feelings, their inconveniences to the side and go, “I’m going to show up for them because they need me.”

If you had lost a leg or arm in a car accident, no one would ever say, “Did you get over losing your arm?” They would never say, “Did you not get over losing that?” However, for some reason, we put a timeline on when someone is supposed to have gotten over their whole person leaving this world, and that is a place that we could show up better.

I’m glad to hear that your experience has been like that. Mine was not, my friendships have changed so much over the last few years and who I was then is very different than who I am now. I’ve done some deep therapy, but also, I’m not going to try as hard as I have to make sure everyone else is okay at my expense. That’s something that I learned from my grief.

In January 2025, a friend of mine died suddenly and I had talked to her the night before she died. I can’t get over it. I’m really struggling with the fact that she’s not here. My other friend was diagnosed in June or July of 2024, and I saw him shortly before he died, and I facetimed him the day before he died. I got to say goodbye and do all that. He was so young. He was my age and I’m not ready to say goodbye.

I did post things about it on my Facebook page to talk about my grief and whatnot. No one closest to me, no one really, I mean, there’s probably maybe two people, they don’t ask me how I’m doing. They don’t ask me, “I know you’re still hurting. It’s been a couple of years, but you must still be hurting.” I almost think that because I do what I do, that they think that I have what extra tools, like my pain’s going to be a little less and I want to just go, “Really?”

It’s actually really hard. I can’t stop thinking about them and I can’t stop thinking about my brother. Since all this has happened, all the other grief keeps coming to the surface. Now I’ve got a party of grief like you go into the restaurant, “Party of two?” “No, I’ve got party of sixteen. We’re all here today.” Me and my sixteen dead friends are going to all like show up everywhere I go. I can’t get rid of them. I’m glad because they make me feel less alone and yet super lonely at the same time. The people that I thought would show up for me the most have not.

That is such a common thing. When I coach therapists or other people that are coaches, the same sentiment, people think, because this is what I do for other people, it makes me immune to this. It does not because this is now your person, this is now your scenario. Something you mentioned, we serve people out of our educational knowledge and from our lived experience because it does make us have more empathy, more considerate, more understanding.

I will never tell another widow, “I know how you feel,” because your feelings are unique to you as an individual, your unique spouse, and a unique marriage. I know what it’s like to lose my husband. I know what it’s like when I stayed in bed for weeks on end in trying to get myself to understand he stopped breathing. The ability to sit with someone in that space is not something I would’ve known before it happened.

  

  

Yes, I could see people saying, “She walks people through that,” but this is a journey. Thank you for sharing that. All of the things that you recommended to people, literally saying this and showing it, we will do all of these things and we will laugh and cry all at the same time as we continue to live our life, continue making an impact and continuing to exist because this is hard. People don’t like leaning into the hard stuff.

The one thing I will tell you, and this I will say, time does not make it better. If you don’t do anything during that time, you will find yourself blinking your eyes and 5 or 10 years later and go, “I feel like they just died yesterday and nothing’s changed,” because you haven’t done anything. If you are not an active participant and leaning into this, you going to be in the same space when time keeps going on.

That is so true. I think, and I did that. I go to therapy every week. I write, I experience my stuff. When I’m feeling something, I face it head on. I’m actually a better person through my healing. Here’s the thing, it doesn’t get better with time. What time does is makes you more familiar with its constant presence. Sometimes, I’m prepared for it, to hear a song and to start sobbing uncontrollably or to dance or laugh because I get to be taken back to one moment when we might have danced. When I watch a movie. It’s a death. I am thinking, “Here it goes.” I cry, but then I’ll still get up and do the rest of my things. Time has made me more familiar with my grief. Not comfortable because it still knocks me off my feet, but I am familiar with it so much so that when it shows up, I’m not surprised.

Grief does not get better with time. You only get more familiar with its constant presence. Share on X

Why Grievers Should Not Hide During The Holidays

For the people that have read this conversation and the holidays are here and they’re thinking, “I don’t want any part to do with this,” any recommendations for them?

Save them a seat at a table, say their name. Ask everybody to do a toast for them. Share a memory. Ask them to share a memory. What was your favorite memory about them, your holiday memories? Let’s invite them to join us here. It’s easier said than done, but I think I want to invite grievers to not hide during the holidays. You’re allowed to be sad. You’re sad, but your family, your friends, if they want you to be with them, that’s because they love you, all of you, even on your most difficult days. My advice would be to not stay home. Go to the party, go to the dinner, dress up, save them a seat at a table, and say their name a lot.

Poem Reading: Forever Tucked Inside

Thank you so much, Gabby, for this conversation. I’m going to say something to our audience, and then I would like for you to close this out with any final thoughts or comments or recommendations or any points that you feel like we didn’t cover. I am sorry for the person that you lost that has driven you to this conversation, but I’m glad you found us. I know this conversation with Gabby, Voices of Widowhood: Healing Through the Holidays, is important and you matter and how you feel matters. We are here for you. I invite you to join Gabby’s community on hospice on Facebook, and connect with other people in a healthy way to be encouraged and know that you are not alone.

Can I read a poem?

Yes, ma’am.

It’s called Forever Tucked Inside. I think it really aligns with our conversation. “To be gifted someone that loves you, to know that feeling in your heart, to be cared for well, and to feel safe in life, that is the very best part. Love comes in many forms and in many different ways. Sometimes it ends way too soon, sometimes it gets to stay. We never know how long we’ll have them. We won’t know when they will go. We learn to cherish moments and memories. Life is fragile and precious that much we know. It is important to remember that time is an unpredictable gift. If we try harder not to waste it, perhaps each moment will be less missed. How can we do this better? How can we make the best of the time we’ve got? I think we absolutely must remember that time is a gift that cannot be bought.”

“Whether our time with them is long or short, it’s not always in our hands. Why they were taken away too soon from us. We will never understand. The hardest thing about loving someone is when you have to say goodbye. There is no easy way to do that. You just have to feel, react, and cry. Every minute we are gifted with them and all the love they’ve thrown our way is a gift to be held onto tightly. It is ours never to be given away. When it’s time to say goodbye, despite the ache that we feel, despite the time that was stolen from us, and despite how many times we might cry, our love for them and theirs for us will stay forever tucked inside.”

Beautiful. Thank you,

Thank you for having me.

 

 

Important Links

• The Hospice Heart
• The Hospice Heart on Facebook
• Healing A Grieving Heart
• It Never Gets Easier to Say Goodbye

  

About Gabrielle Jimenez

Gabby started her Facebook community, The Hospice Heart, in August of 2019, which has now grown to almost 149,000 followers. She intended to create a safe place for people to talk about death, dying, and grief, and while that has happened, it has also offered her a platform to share her end-of-life tips and tools that help comfort and support those navigating a terminal illness, their caregivers, end-of-life workers, and grievers.

This is sacred, beautiful work, and should always be met with kindness and compassion.