Grief isn’t a destination you arrive at; it’s a companion that changes alongside you. If you’ve felt the weight of loss, you know that the journey is rarely a straight line—it is complex, unpredictable, and deeply personal.

In this moving conversation, author Jackie Disch joins us to discuss her powerful memoir, Losing Katy: A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Living Grief. Together, we explore the raw, beautiful, and non-linear reality of losing her wife, Katy. Jackie introduces the concept of “living grief”—a framework that invites us to move beyond the pressure to “get over it” and instead learn how to integrate our loss into our daily lives. From the exhaustion of the early days to the shifting tides of memory and the importance of creating quiet spaces for healing, Jackie’s reflections offer a gentle, manageable path forward for anyone navigating the depths of sorrow.

Whether you are in the early stages of widowhood or years into your journey, this episode is an invitation to honor your love while navigating the complexities of life after loss. Join us as we explore how to find authentic connection and quiet strength even when life feels overwhelming.

I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.  

Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.

—

Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Grief Is Not Linear: Jackie Disch On Love, Loss & Living With Grief

Widowhood Real Talk with Dr. Tina is more than a show. We are an entire 501(c)(3) nonprofit. One of our favorite programs is Children of Widowhood Secret Santa. This allows us to help children who have lost one or both of their parents. That process is done by the remaining parent or guardian applying on their behalf, going to our website, WidowhoodRealtalkWithTina.org, selecting events in the drop-down menu, and then selecting Children Widowhood Secret Santa.

Apply between June 1st and June 30th of 2026. This allows us to help and sponsor you. If you are an individual, organization, book club, or group that would like to sponsor a child or entire family, please email me at WidowhoodRealTalk@gmail.com. This is our opportunity to take this show on an individual basis to people who need to know we are here and you are not on this journey alone.

Recognizing The Early Signs Of Illness And End-Of-Life Planning

Our guest, Jackie, is going to share her book with us, Losing Katy: A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Living Grief. I’d like to read a little bit of this to you to understand the conversation that we’re going to have. “Losing Katy, the journey to your death began three years ago in early June. Overnight, you almost fully recovered from the first stroke. It might have been a mini stroke, but it still took its toll, leaving you exhausted throughout each day.”

“After that first stroke, we had many deep conversations, rereading health documents and confirming what to do and what not to do, and what we wanted to be done in the event of a medical emergency. We reviewed our end-of-life wishes.” This conversation today with Jackie is going to go further into this journey. Let’s get into this conversation now.

Jackie, welcome to Widowhood.

I do not know if I want to be welcomed to Widowhood.

When people say thank you, I am like, and I usually say thank you because I am like, “What is going on in the back of your head that you say thank you to that?” Excellent answer and very truthful. We are headed in the right direction. How does widowhood look for you?

I am six years into it. At any given time, it still feels like it was just yesterday. One thing that widowhood does to me is it changes time. If I think, “I started seeing this doctor two years ago, I have to stop myself and remind myself, wait, Katy died six years ago. I started seeing the doctor two years before she died. I have had to stop and add that timing because it just messes with your head and your memory.

It does. It is interesting that you mentioned the timeline of Katy’s transition to measuring things. My children and I talk about how their dad’s passing is like Amadeus. It is either before or after. It is like everything has now become that point of measurement for my children, and I can relate to that. The time loss is very interesting because I was not prepared for that reality. I was prepared for sadness. I was prepared for depression. The other things, were you thinking that these other things would be part of what it would be like losing Katy, or were these surprises to you too?

Navigating The Unexpected Exhaustion And Memory Lapses Of Early Grief

I have studied death and dying, and I have been with other people at the end of their lives. I am one of those odd people who is comfortable with death in terms of being there with someone. All of those things did not prepare me at all for Katy’s death. Her death completely blew me out of the water and changed my world. I was not prepared for the amount of exhaustion. In the early days, I would have to take a nap, like I could do something for like two hours, and then I would have to take a nap.

I could maybe go for another two hours and then take a nap. That is how it was for probably the first two or three months, until gradually the naps started getting longer. Time awake started getting longer between the naps. The memory part is, I was aware of it, but the way it affected me surprised me. Simple things that you used to remember with no problem. I will whistle, and it is like, “Did I brush my teeth? I think I brushed my teeth.” I am sure I did, but I cannot really remember.” It can go down to something as simple and daily as routine, such as brushing your teeth or taking any medication you take. There were some surprises there.

Thank you. For me, I had envisioned those other people having that. That is not how I was going to handle it in the reading, and the things that I knew before my own actual experience. It was hearsay in my mind, not that the likelihood of having the same experience was the highest percentage, as I now know it is.

We find out a lot of those things once we go through it ourselves.

It’s very true. To that point, I think that is why when people who have not traveled try to give you direction or advice, it does not land as well. I know they mean well, but it is often better to ask a person grieving, how can I help you versus making an assumption. What would you say to that?

Even a lot of times, asking the question, how can I help you? At times, that might be met with an overwhelmed response. You always need to at least try to preface the sense that you’re getting with that person if you know them well enough or whatever the situation is, but also be prepared that they may not even know how you might be feeling. The response might be, “I do not know right now.”

That is true. When you hear Katy’s name, what does that bring to mind besides that smile? What are the thoughts that go through your mind or memories when you hear her name?

I miss her. I miss our times together. The memories of our laughter and our talking and just being together. Our little routines, like when she would come home from work. That was when she was starting dinner. She would come in the back door, and as she came in, we would hug each other and say I love you or welcome home. It’s also really deep in the memories and the experience at the time while she was living. We were very close and very in tune with one another. The main thing you saw, I just cannot help it, is the smile. That’s what she does.

Six years later, the smile is still automatic. Now, it’s my understanding that writing has always been your jam. It’s a lifelong thing for you. Do you remember how you fell in love with writing?

I was pretty shy. Some people might disagree with that. For me, I felt more internal than external. The one way that I could express myself or just get in touch with myself was through writing. That was at a fairly young age, I would say, by my very early teens. I was writing my form of poetry. It might not have been an acceptable form of poetry, but it worked for me. People like Emily Dickinson, of course, I may not have always understood her writing, but there was some connection. She was writing pretty deep stuff that I do not think the general public really connected to very often.

Also, there was in ‘70s and early ‘80s, was an author named Hugh Prather. If you recognize that name, he had written a book called Notes to Myself: My Struggle to Become a Person. What it was was basically just these little writings he would do regarding himself and his wife and their day-to-day stuff. That’s what my book is like. That’s what all of my writings are like. When I saw his book, somebody had written it for me as a gift. I was like, Maybe I can write and be published and maybe this is an acceptable way to express myself and have people read.

Thank you for explaining that writing style. I also thought when I was reading that and thinking of the style in which you wrote, when people are grieving in the throes of that profound grief, it’s easier to have bite-sized information. Sometimes it can be overwhelming. I remember when my husband passed, there was one book, I think I started reading it like 44 different times. I do not know if I ever got past page two.

The words would blur the crying and everything, so I thought the style in which you were writing would actually be amenable to someone who is experiencing profound grief and trying to take a bite-sized portion and still feel like a sense of accomplishment that I finished this portion of it. I was supposed to do something before we started to tell you the different parts of the book that we were going to cover, and we got to do some other stuff, and I totally forgot. I do apologize. Before we get into your book, tell us how you met Katy.

I’d like to say that the universe brought us together. We met later in life, and I was the first woman in a relationship that Katy was in. I tell you, I’ve said this before, she did not just come out of the closet, she burst out. She was so happy and so embraced. I’ve had people within her family say that they had never seen her so happy and so satisfied as they did when they saw her. That’s the part of how we met that I like to talk about.

Thank you for sharing that. Do you feel the world you live in today gives you the safety to express your love and your loss?

As someone who grew up in the ‘70s with the first round of feminists and gay and lesbian rights, today is very different from that time. Katy and I were together for 23 years. We were able to get legally married. We were married for six years. I lost my transfer.

Do you like me to repeat the question?

Yes.

Do you feel the day and time in which you are living gives you the safety to be able to express your love and your loss for Katy?

Yes, in addition to our time together, and being lucky enough to be together during a time when we could legally marry. The other piece of that is that at that time we lived in Minneapolis, and it was a very progressive, open, safe city. Being together during that time versus, like I was saying in the ‘70s, things have changed so much. However, I have in the past, it was about two and a half years ago now, I moved up north along the North shore of Minnesota into a small city, very rural, red and blue spots.

Not to get too political, but with the current administration, I do not feel as safe as I did when he was alive. In fact, it takes me back to those days in the ‘70s when I’d be walking down the street as a teenager wearing a hat and a fake leather jacket, and I would be called names just for doing that. I’m much more cautious. At the time of Katy’s death, we were fortunate to have prospects that had no problem if they had a problem with our relationship. They did a great job hiding it. It felt to me genuinely like they accepted us. It was a good experience. It could easily have been in a different place in the States and a different time frame.

Thank you for sharing that. For the people who are at odds or not as welcoming, what is something you think they are not realizing about you and your love for Katy?

Love is love. There’s a book that’s the same for any two people who find it.

Thank you. How did you turn this horrific moment, devastating pain, and bring your love to writing to share this story? What was the catalyst? How did that come about for you?

Finding The Catalyst For Writing A Memoir During Isolation

In March of 2023, I came up to the North Shore, and I rented a one-room cabin for ten days as a self-imposed writing retreat. It was during that time that I wanted to get all of my writings together that I had done from 2020 to 2023. A majority of those writings were about Katy. She had died in July of 2020 in the midst of the COVID pandemic and the isolation of that.

It was during that time that I was thinking, “I should put this into a book.” In the back of my mind, which you had said earlier, the idea of someone who’s breathing not being able to take in a whole lot when they’re reading. That was in the back of my mind when I decided to do the book this way. After that, it felt like it was something bigger than me. I was along for the ride and just needed to stay out of my own way.

Did this come from journals that you were keeping over time, or literally coming from your memory when you started writing?

They were all based on writings that I had done during that time. There might’ve been a couple that needed finishing, but I just scribbled down the majority of what I wanted to say. It came from writings that I did. It came from after her dad, Katy was a licensed psychologist in private practice for 25 years. It was my job after she passed to close up her practice and things like that. I still had her cell phone. Before I disconnected her cell phone, I would still send her a text. Some of my texts and some of my emails that I would send to her. It’s a variety of places.

You brought back a memory for me. I remember I was just sharing this with another, I do not know if it was a widow or someone that I remember texting my late husband’s phone until someone answered, and I was like, “I’ve got to stop this.” I was just like, “That’s over.” I would call and leave messages. I was like, “Can I order down no pizza or something like that when they pick up the phone?” I’m like, “That was it.”

If my spouse had not passed, I would have been like, why are you doing that? But having been in that place, the relief, there’s so many different reasons why it’s necessary. It may not be for everyone. For those who get it, get it, and for those who do not, it’s just not your cup of tea. Let’s go to page three of your book. My apologies, I do have it all posted out. We started talking, and I forgot to tell you. Do you want me to give you all the pages now or just go one by one?

One by one is good.

If you would read everything, including the date.

It’s titled Dark Circles. “The dark circles under my eyes are not from lack of sleep. Sleeping is the easier part. No, the dark circles under my eyes are from grief and deep, unadulterated hurting. June 12, 2020.”

Now, this is before. Katy is still here at this moment in time.

She had had two strokes in ten days. The first one was June 3rd, and that one she pretty much recovered from, and I had some, aside from the substance, it seemed not really password issues. Ten days later, she had a larger stroke, which affected her ability to speak. At the time this was written, she’d already had her first stroke, and we did not know what it was. We did not know if it was a stroke or a heart attack, was it a brain tumor, or some other weird thing? It did spark a lot of deep conversations and reviewing our legal documents and talking about again what we wanted and did not want in terms of treatment, in terms of company type of thing. This was just from after that first stroke.

Prioritizing Healthcare Directives And Advance Planning

The reality that the end could be sooner than believed. You use that time to start planning. What are some things that you would recommend to people in relationships or people caring for parents that you realize you’re glad that you had the opportunity, and they should leverage and do now if possible?

Everybody, if they do not do their will, I say everyone should do that. The bigger thing is for a healthcare director, and in that, being as specific as you can, letting the person that you choose to be your representative, letting them know what you want, how you want them to be treated, what you want to have happen in certain situations. With Katy, it was a little complicated by COVID because medical settings were still closed down. Basically, only the patient could go in, and then you could not visit them or be with them. If Katy had had her second stroke and there was no COVID, she might have gone on to see another doctor to see what the options were.

Also, she would have made the same decision of no treatment. She did not want to be dropped off somewhere and left there. I did not want her to be spending whatever time alone like that. It’s very important, if nothing else, that you do a living will or a healthcare directive, whatever you call it. Be as specific as possible. Name the person you feel most comfortable with who you think will do the things that you want to do.

Once something happens, I’ve found it can be very easy to say, “They’re not really aware of it anymore. I’m just going to listen to this other person. You can. I can.” I could not. I was so determined to, because Katy trusted me. I was so determined to hold my word to her. As much as I may have hated it or did not like it or did not want it, and as much as somebody else may have thought, “Can she have done this or this or that? No, this is what Katy wanted, this is what I needed to do.”

There is something powerful in honoring the wishes of someone we love when they entrust us with something so valuable as their last wishes. We are the voice that they no longer have. That is important. You mentioned Katy passing during COVID. How has that factor of COVID you feel impacted your grief, and maybe others?

For me, it was as horrendous as COVID was. It gave me the opportunity and the space to just breathe, to be in my grief, to let myself feel whatever I was feeling, and not have to worry about somebody knocking on my door or somebody who always wanted to come over or whatever, it just created that space. I appreciate that space. As I said, I’m an internal person, and I’ve always been aware of my feelings and my emotions and how I react to things.

I really was able to just have that time. For the first two years, I still text maybe FaceTime with someone, but it was not until after two years that I thought, “Now I’m going to go out and start being a little more social, have coffee, have dinner, or something.” For me, COVID had a positive impact on my grief. For other people, I’m not so sure how that felt for them. We were able to have an outdoor small gathering for her, which is what she wanted.

I’m glad you were able to have a service because when I talk to some people, not having some of the cultural type things that we’re accustomed to in the past and loved ones can make it harder. I make a hard situation even harder. I’m glad for you that you were able to at least honor that wish and be able to be supported by people who know you and knew Katy.

Also, for people who lived in different places, one in Canada, across the United States, they zoomed in. We did a multi-thing so they could at least interact, and it was very informal. It was nice to be able to do that.

Page seven, please.

Just page seven?

Yep.

That is the ending of page six.

I read that back and forth, and I was like, the title is right there.  You can read 6 and 7, but seven was the powerful part for me. Yes, it is your book, Sickness Out.

I intentionally broke some of the sentences out.

I thought so. I was hyper-focused on that. My apologies.

No problem. I’m glad you said that. Somehow, people who read the book as a result of seeing your podcast will know that the date of the writing signifies the end.

That is why it was important, as I told you in preparation, that I wanted the parts that I knew had that weight to it.

Do you want me to read the whole thing?

Yes, since you mentioned it, now you have to. “You pointed it out, now you’re reading it all.”

Be quiet next time. I’m kidding. This one is rainstorms and rain bolts. “I was sitting on the bed with Katy, listening to what would be her last few breaths, when suddenly I heard what sounded like hail pounding on the roof. It turned out to be big, long raindrops. I was excited because I knew how much Katy loved the sound of rain. “Sweetie,” I exclaimed as I flung myself off the bed, “I think it’s raining.”

I was so happy because I thought it would be peaceful for Katy to hear that it would bring her joy and comfort. It reminds me of the first rainstorm I ever really listened to. It was a late afternoon summer storm. We climbed down to the bed to listen as Katy told me how much she loved the sound and the smell of rain, the rumble of thunder. I, on the other hand, was afraid of storms, especially high winds and lightning. That day, it was a gentle storm. As we lay listening and experiencing the sounds, I felt a deep sense of safety, of belonging, and so very much love for the woman next to me.

It is one of my favorite first memories with her. On the day Katy died, just as she took her last breath, a steady downpour came along with some gentle thunder. No wind, no lightning. The timing was impeccable. In fact, no rain or storms were forecasted that day. It seemed to have come out of nowhere and lasted only a few minutes. I believe it was Katy leaving. The accompanying grandma told me she was okay. July 1820.”

How does this feel different to you now than the moment you wrote it?

It does not in the sense that I feel it now as I did when I wrote it. I remember that so clearly when it happened. It feels like I was able to capture the important parts of what was going on and express what I believed, which is it would not doubt me, I would not doubt it if Katy were that storm, if she transitioned from this life and just went into that gentle rainstorm. Some people may not believe things like that. It is to put it all together and to have been there in the moment. It was incredible.

This is your moment for you and Katy’s story. It is not to be validated or approved. This is your conversation, sharing your moment in your life and honoring that. They can go kick rocks. How does it feel now from when you experienced it?

I guess now I do not feel as much pain as I did at the time. At the time, I felt both pain and love, and now I feel both pain and love. Love is the bigger piece. Now, pain was the bigger piece then.

That is important to hear. How do you think you made that shift to love being the bigger piece? Was it just a lapse of time, or were there things that you did during that time that made that so?

Integrating Love And Loss Through The Concept Of Living Grief

I have a belief, and this is in the title of the book, that I intentionally use the term living grief. That’s because I believe that’s what we do. Do not put it off in a little corner, say, “We’re done with that. No, we do not get over it or get through it.” I figure it walks with us. As I talk about in that book, I think it ages with us. One of the surprising things for me when I was putting this book together was that at the time, I did not see the love that was already there.

Until I put the book together and I was reading through it, it was like, “Now I see how grief and love can be in the same space. How the love becomes, for me, it becomes stronger, my love for Katy and the bond we share just becomes deeper and stronger.” Again, as you can tell by my smile. I think time is part of it, but it’s also intentionally living with grief. By that I mean that it doesn’t change, and you do not, I do not usually use these words, but it’s not like you do not move forward and you do not get to a different place in your life. I believe when you’re living grief, and you’re honoring your grief and then, in turn, honoring the person who loved you, the loved one you lost, helps you move into the world in a more authentic way.

Thank you to the person who’s hearing that. The pain is what they’re comfortable with, and the idea of what if I try that and it doesn’t work? What would you say to them if you bumped into them in the grocery store, and it just happened to come up, and they just landed that on you? What would you say to them?

My academic background is in psychology, so pardon me, I immediately switch to the psychological bigger things going on. I honestly believe that you will find it in yourself, and you will know when you find it. It may take a while. Do not judge yourself for not feeling it right away. There are so many things with belief. We already get judged for moving too fast, not moving fast enough. Get over it. What are you doing? Why are you doing that now? They just start. There’s no winning in the way that our society currently deals with that. You really do need to find things that resonate with you. Find things that help you get into your deeper self. Without any further information about that person, that’s, I guess, what I would say.

It’s a grocery store. We do not get the deep dive. Page number 43, please. Do you know this book by heart? The look on your face when I see some of these numbers, I’m like, “I think she knows exactly what’s on this page.”

I’m embarrassed to say I do not.

It’s okay. I am right now on the fifth review of my book, and I’m like, “Okay.” I’m still finding things. It is an ever-evolving process.

My smile just now was when you asked me in the beginning if you wanted me to, if you wanted it to go page by page, or if you wanted it to be talked to me at once. I was thinking, “This is where my three spring still come in.”

I would not remember all of the page numbers. I’m glad it worked out this way.

P4page 43. Yes, ma’am. The title is Year One. “Rattle around in a life without you is all I seem to do. One year, my sweetie. Good God, how can you be gone by the third of 2020?

Did you have a concept of what one year would be like versus what it was?

In my head, I do not know how I got it, but I had an idea of what the first two years would be like. What I realized when I came into the third year is that I do not know what to expect anymore. Year two can be very intense in terms of your emotions, your experiences, flashbacks, and memories. Plus, if you have to deal with legal things like probate and doing the will, getting things settled, or even planning the funeral or memorial, and all of that stuff.

For me, the first year and a half, probate ended up being a part of it, which was frustrating because we both thought that we had set everything up so we would not have to do probate. There was a little surprise and no wings, so we ended up having to do that. In my mind, that’s how I had the first two years. What I thought I would experience on a one-year anniversary was everything all over again, from June 3rd to June 13th to July 23rd, to July 3rd, because she died a month from the date of her first stroke.

When that first year came out, I think I was fortifying myself, it’s just going to go all through me again, every single piece of it, every day, every moment right up to the end. I was a little surprised that that did not happen. I was like, “Okay.” All of that did not happen. I still have these deep feelings, and I’m still in pain. I did not end up reliving everything. That’s not the same. Those years, I was not reliving things. There are always things that could have been set up, and the questioning of, I do this right or “Why didn’t I do this?” That argument may have been one time, but why did we have that? All of those things just come into your head, and it’s crazy making.

It is. As we are recording this conversation, it is eight, and do you start thinking about the upcoming date in the future, or does it just surprise you like, “Yeah,” like have you totally forgotten? Are you consciously aware of the timeline?

In the beginning, she was very tuned in to keeping track of any time a Friday came up. She died on Friday. I was very aware of Fridays. Any time a third and a Friday came together, like the day she died. In fact, yesterday was the thirteenth time since Katy died that the third fell on a Friday. By the way, I googled that, and I did not know that.

Can we look? Thank you for saving us. People count different things.

That’s what I was aware enough to know. It was falling down. Friday was falling on the third. That made me think how many times that has happened since? In looking that up, I discovered that this July third, the upcoming will also be a Friday. That only happened like two times.

It’s because of the way the days change. Do you recall or notice how each year has been different for you over time?

I do, but not in terms of year to year. I very much live day to day or in the moment. I try to be as intentional as possible. I’m more of an in-the-moment person than I am. Big picture type person.

That’s fair. We have two more sections. I’m going to make sure I’m paying attention to have this right. Page 89.

Spinal moving and dying. Dying is indeed a part of living. It is equally true that living is a part of dying. Neither happens in a vacuum. October 2nd, 2022.

Understanding The Duality Of Living And Dying Together

Do you recall what was going on to cause you to pin this?

Yes. Again, it goes back to our uncomfortableness as a society of talking about death and dying and its life issues. We’re all familiar with the idea that death is a part of life. The other piece of that is even when you’re dying, you’re living. I do not think very many people realize that it brings that to light. It’s like when you’re dying. It might be better these days, but it’s like, “Grandma’s in the back room. Leave her alone. She needs peace. She’s dying.” It’s like, “No, she’s still living. She lives as if she were dying. Just like we’re dying as we live. That’s just how it goes.” That was the thing that was in my head when I wrote that.

I actually had another post, and I was like, “Tina, what were you doing there?” Trying to get myself straight.

Did you have any thoughts about that one?

I wanted to know what your thoughts were when you were writing. It seemed a little different than the other parts of the book. It gave me an interest to bring that out to the reader. The last section is on page 105.

It’s titled Life. “Life is in the way of my grief. Does it not understand the toll of grief’s demands?” January 7, 2023.

What was going on? What was getting in the way of what? Trying to live and grieve is coming on. I told you in the beginning, I was nosy, and I needed tea. This definitely drew me in. I was like, “What was getting in the way? What’s happening here?” As life, as you say now, I was trying to use these words, but as we continue living, it can be complex, the duality of it all.

2023, part of the pieces in my book, and part of the reason that the pieces where I included the date is to show that grief is not linear, that it can come and go and track back and not be bad all over the place. This was one of those moments where that very well could have been written three days after Katy died. All I want to do is sit and cry. Life is saying, “No, you have to keep doing this and this and this.” That piece was about could have years later, I’m still feeling my grief. The days can still be hard. I get tired of being tired of life taking me away from my group. It’s like some days not being able to balance grief and life as well as other days.

Is that still a challenge today?

I would say it is at times, yes. Grief is universal, but we all experience it individually. We all have our own experience with it and with what happened. It can be repetitive. Again, you can think, “It’s been too many years, and I’m feeling this way.” I’m not making any progress. I’m not moving on. I’m not getting over this. I’m so those days can be hard and those times can be hard. Just acknowledging and knowing that it can happen can help. Especially somebody who might be earlier, early in their grief, or just beginning. You’re too into it. Just to know that that’s what grief is. That’s how it is. That’s how life is.

For the person reading a memoir of love, loss, and living grief, losing Katy, what do you want them to take away from this story?

Creating Community And Finding Meaning In The Grief Journey

We’ve touched on multiple things. Mostly, it is. It is a love letter to Katy, as odd as that may sound. It’s in honor of her. It’s in honor of my grief. It’s also with hope that others will read it and maybe see a piece of it that helps them maybe not feel as alone or maybe helps them understand some piece about grief. It might not be the same situation of being in a same-sex marriage or relationship, but that does not mean the feeling. The book is very much about feeling. I do not know if you picked up on that.

Not at all. I did not think of, “Was that why?”

No, you’re just going to miss that. It’s way over my head because all of my writings are personal. They’re all varied in the moment, down and dirty in the grief, the sadness, in the trauma. That’s one thing that, if I may say so, I wrote. That’s what I like about it. That’s what I like about my writing is that it’s relatable. There’s one thing I could quit. I’m interviewing with Joni Mitchell on my Facebook. That’s from June 11, 2013. She’s talking about fame or music or all of that stuff wrapped together.

She says, “If you listen to my music and you see me, you’re not getting anything out of it. If you listen to that music and you see yourself, it’ll probably make you cry. You’ll learn something about yourself. Now you’re getting something out of it.” Although my book might be about me, I thought creating the most important piece of it for me is how you feel. What do you get out of it? Not what you learn about me or what, anything like that. Those all come hand in hand, but it’s just for the reader.

Where can the reader find your book?

It’s available in most places. I have them all listed. I have links on my website. It is in e-book and print formats. Shop.org, Times Noble, Amazon.com, any of those online stores. You can probably, for most places, go to your local bookstore and ask them to order it. They should be able to get it.

Thank you so much for allowing me to share this book with our community. I like to give my guests the opportunity to be the show’s host. Any questions you have for me?

I do have a question. I am very impressed with what you do, all of the work that you’re doing in your organization. Where did you get that energy or the skills to put all of this together? Did it come just after the death of your husband?

Finding Meaning And Community Building Through Organizational Support

That’s a good question. No one has ever asked me that. I was raised by my parents in Chicago. My dad was a veteran. He worked for the city of Chicago in different facets and retired as a police officer. My mother was in the medical field, and once they started having a family, she stayed home full-time. I come from a very structured background. I was in the army for 21 years. I’m very structured. I’ve been in leadership roles, been a civilian, and worked in Iraq. I’ve been in different leadership roles as a minister at church.

Organization is one of my gifts, quietly listening to what people need and slipping into the opportunity when we can do something about it. Two of those things look like our Children of Widowhood Secret Santa. For children who have lost one or both parents starting June first, the registration process starts. That was something I wanted to do, but did not have the bandwidth. Two widows came to me and said, “We’d like to do this with your nonprofit sponsor as we do the program.” I was like, “Yes.” I had to go to the board members and find out, and get their approval.

It’s not me. It’s having an organization that makes itself available to support those who are grieving. We are in the process of starting a memorial garden. We just have the outline of that on our website. That is an amazing way to create quiet spaces, benches, gardens, and a place where we also host the annual butterfly release ceremony to give people a quiet place, because not everybody is ready for therapy. Everybody’s not ready for a grief support group. The need to connect, the need to know that I’m not alone in a space that I’m comfortable with, is extremely powerful.

The other thing is that my birthday is in May, so that has been an annual fundraiser because when you have a nonprofit, you need money to do the things for people that resonate with the effort that you’re doing. My birthday has been the month of a fundraiser. I’ve told people I do not want gifts, but if you could donate to the organization. That’s caused them to see like, “I knew she was doing something, but I didn’t know this is what it was.”

Making that reality has given more awareness to the organization and the different things that we do. Being in community with other widows, widowers, and people who are grieving, it gives them some piece of ownership when they have a part. We have a widower who leads our men’s only grief support meeting. We have some other widows who manage our private Facebook group. All those pieces are really helpful because it brings meaning sometimes, so people feel like they do not have meaning anymore.

That’s awesome.

Thank you. Maybe I should talk about how you can help. Get you involved. Any other questions?

No, that was the one that I was just like in awe of all you had set up. I was just looking at your podcast and things like that. That’s how I started learning the different things that you do. It’s just amazing.

Thank you. The podcast and content on social media are usually the gateway that people find out, and they think it’s just a podcast or something. It’s like there are other things because this one widow mentioned, she said, “We experience pain on an individual level, but we heal in community.” There’s something to be said about that. Yes, we may need moments of isolation, but there’s power in connecting with other people healthily and being able to navigate this space.

I have found that extremely helpful. I try to promote that. Not hyper-focused on me, but different ways of connecting other people to be able to make that gap, and what people need. I would like you to finish this conversation. Maybe there’s something we did not cover or something you would like to wrap up, but final thoughts to the people that joined us on this conversation.

I really respect the fact that I’m not excited about being in widowhood. I’m very glad that I was able to be a part of your show and that you took the time to read my book, and we had a chance to talk about it more. I’ve been doing some other podcasts, and we do not really talk about the book as much as we talk about grief and that type of thing. I appreciate the time to talk a little more about it in depth.

You’re welcome. Thank you.

Thank you.

Important Links

• Jackie Disch
• Widowhood Real Talk With Tina
• WidowhoodRealTalk@gmail.com
• Losing Katy: A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Living Grief
• Notes to Myself: My Struggle to Become a Person

About Jackie Disch

Jackie Disch is a lifelong writer and the indie author of two poetry collections, Life Forces a Journey (2001) and Hitting Bone (2004), both part of the Tretter Collection in Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Studies at the University of Minnesota. Her latest book, Losing Katy: A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Living Grief, was released in 2025. Born and raised in Wisconsin, she now lives on the North Shore of Lake Superior, where she is working on a magical realism novel.