When someone loses a partner to suicide, their grief journey is vastly different from other people. Sarah Johnston’s life changed forever in 2016 when her spouse took her own life, and now she wears purple every day to honor her late husband’s memory. In our conversation, Sarah looks back on how she discovered the right support group to guide her through the grieving journey, which is unfortunately riddled with stigma and blame when it comes to suicide loss. She also opens up on how she deals with people who put her under scrutiny for her husband’s death, showing them compassion instead of hatred.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.
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Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Honoring My Late Husband Everyday With Sarah Johnston
My guest, Sarah Johnston, has some nuggets for you. We are going to discuss shame and blame for people who have lost their spouse to suicide, how people in the clergy can better show up to support the grieving, and so much more. Let’s get into this conversation now. Sarah, welcome to the show.
I’m so glad to be here.
Are you really glad to be here in the widowhood conversation?
I’m not glad to be in the widowhood, but I’m glad to be in the conversation.
When you hear that, welcome to widowhood, what comes to mind for you?
This is not my hood. I was not meant to be here. Like, “Why am I here? I was supposed to have purple hair by the time I ended up here.”
Let’s talk about that. In a reality in a world that everyone dies, how are you not supposed to be here in your mind?
I was thirteen years younger than my husband. In just daily living, it just made sense that he would go first, but we would be old. I was prepared for us because we were empty nesters for like two years before he died. We would sit in the backyard and discuss what our retirement in a few more years was going to look like. We were like, we’re going to sit at the farm and rocking chairs on the porches and he’s going to drive the tractors and I’m going to bring him a beer. We were going to die old and gray out here on the farm. Not like this.
When you say not like this, what does that mean for your situation?
He died too young. He was 54. I, at the time, was 41.
Your husband’s name, if you would share that with us?
Jeff.
How did you and Jeff meet?
Funny story. My sisters are both quite a lot older than me. I was a whoops. My oldest sister’s husband at the time, I married his childhood best friend.
Jeff, was that?
My brother-in-law’s childhood best friend.
That made for fun times with family get-togethers and doing things.
We did all the things together. We were just a super tight family unit. Many memories.
What memory came across your mind? What did it look like?
Just all the family gatherings that we had together. We’d always do it in crawfish boils and turkey fries and things like that. Everything together as a big family, all the cousins together. We don’t have that anymore.
Do they still have them, or they do not exist at all?
They really don’t exist at all.
Did that happen when Jeff passed, or was it something before that?
I would say so much when Jeff passed. Now that I think about it, you’re making me reflect on new things. I feel like I need to get my notepad out.
Go get it.
I need to journal this. Hang on.
You bring up a good point. Why do you journal?
I have always journaled. All of my life, I have written things down. Even if it’s just a quick note, a side note in a book, or whatever I’m writing, like seriously, when I pass, my kids are going to have so many notebooks and random things to clean out. There are hundreds of them. It just came naturally to me. It’s always been something I’ve done. With the grief, I found that it was absolutely my greatest tool and instrument.
If you connected with someone that was a new widow and she was like, all that journaling is trash, it doesn’t do any good. What would you share with her?
My journaling can look as basic as that. My journaling can look as basic as these quick things. That’s journaling. The fact that I wrote down, I’m just super angry, and I cannot work it out. That’s journaling. Writing down, “I’m super happy, and I want to have this moment that I can look back on and remember every detail.” I’m going to write it down. I also do. I go back and look at those.
Keeping a journal allows you to make a written record of your feelings that you can look back on. Share on XThat was especially important to me during my mom’s dementia journey when I earnestly started using it as a tool. I wasn’t aware that that’s what I was doing until I started working on healing and people were talking about, “It’s part of the process.” I realized it is because when I would go back and look at those, I would then write again from a different perspective. It’s interesting to read those and the number of times the perspective of how it changes over time each time.
I’ve never thought of that. I’m in the eighth year of my late husband’s passing. Every week, I’m sharing journal entries. Have you seen some of those?
I have. I weirdly stalk you. Not like stalk you. I’m always like that person in the background that’s too scared. I’ll call me every once in a while or hit the like button. I’m always too scared to show up on anybody’s feed. I see them all. I’m like, I love it because I connect with it because I’m like, “I’m not the only one that does that.”
That part right there, Sarah, is the part that is important when there are people really isolated and alone. When you dip your finger into this widowhood community, you will learn, “I’m not the only one doing this.”
Thank you. That truly, especially early on, was a big saving grace for me because here I was, like 42. I didn’t have any direction. Plus, when you lose someone to suicide, your support system that you were accustomed to, that big family, big family gathering, that disappeared.
Finding The Right Support Group
Let’s talk about that. Thank you for being willing to mention that Jeff took his own life.
I will absolutely openly talk about it all day long, every day. I no longer subscribe to the shame blame, so let’s cut.
You just mentioned that when someone is a widow to suicide, you feel like your widowhood journey looks different. Can you talk about some of those differences and what you’ve observed for your own experience?
For me in particular, not only did I go from having this great support system. My family and friends were there all the time and being able to say anything and do anything to. “I did not feel safe sharing anything, nothing, because I was blaming myself. Also, other people were blaming me, too.”
What is that blame? When you said blaming yourself, what did that look like in your head or your mind or in your face?
It’s looked like different things over time. Very initially, right away, was, “Why wasn’t I there? Why the hell wasn’t I there? “ It became, why didn’t I know more? Why didn’t I do more? I literally just recorded about this. I was cleaning it up.
You’re going to post on social media?
I’ll probably put it on YouTube. About the regrets and the what ifs and the if onlys. I was ripping myself apart with those things, but other people were coming at me, too. When I was already stabbing myself with these shards and blades, then other people were too, instead of saying, “No. Don’t worry, you did what you could.” Everyone went, “Why weren’t you there? Where were you? Why didn’t you do more? Why didn’t more?” They were asking questions I couldn’t answer myself. It edified my thoughts and feelings that this was my fault. I had failed. I should have done more, could have done more. Now this. It leaves you in a lonely, really dark and you don’t feel safe.
How did you start combating that?
I went ahead and found a suicide loss-specific support group.
That was really important. Now, I will say this about support groups. You got to find the right one. I say this support groups are like a hairdresser just because they do, it doesn’t mean it’s the right one. Your hair you can put color purple. You have to find the right person that’s going to dye it correctly. You may go to one person, they don’t know how to do the conditioning, lay the color in, the different layers. That doesn’t mean you still don’t want the purple hair, it’s just that you don’t want them to do it. You go find somebody else. You have to find your trie. You have to find where you feel comfortable.
It was good to find that specific group.
That was worth the search.
It was because they, too, were dealing with those same things. Blaming yourself and getting blamed by others. They understood, like we said, and it made me feel not alone in that. Other people are doing that too.
Can you talk about what the other group. Do not say the name of the group. I want someone to be able to read to this conversation and think, “That’s how I can identify that group didn’t work for me and I should go someplace else.” Can you share some things that you recognize for you that didn’t work in that group that could help somebody else?
In that particular group, yes, I’ve written so many personal essays on this, and you would die laughing. That particular group, while it did make me feel less alone, terrified me. I was maybe 2 or 3 months into my widowhood, and I was brain-fogged and confusion and in chaos. I went to that group just looking for some answers like, “How long is this brain fog? When am I going to be able to think again? When am going to stop throwing up and crying all the time?”
I found this group, and I went, and it was suicide specific. We’re sitting there, we’re talking. Finally, I asked somebody. I just leaned over and I was like, “I just have really like one question. Is brain fog going to go? When am I going to be able to think?” She goes, “I’m ten years in, and it’s still there.” I left, I ran, and I cried. I did not go back to another group because that was not what I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear like, “Ten years in, it still sucks, but it’s only going to be really bad for like that first three months.” That was not what I heard. I just like split.
Next group, what did that look like for you?
The next group I tried was a couple of years later. I had started working with a therapist who was like, “Why don’t you try a grief group?” That time being several years in, I wasn’t necessarily thinking like find a suicide specific one thing. I went to just a regular, I don’t even know, whatever I looked up was the closest grief group to me. I went, and when I went in and we all sat down, you introduced yourself, and I barely made it to the seated. Like, “Who are you? What’s your story?”
I was introducing myself, “I’m Sarah, lost my husband to suicide a couple years ago.” Literally, one of the other people goes, “I really don’t think that you’re a good fit for this group. There are special groups for people like you.” I was like, “Oh.” They were like, “Here at the center, we have another group specifically for people who’ve lost someone to suicide, and you should really go to that group.” I’m like, “I’ll give it a try, but can I be at this group just sit at this group and watch?” They were like, “No, you cannot. You should really go back, group.”
They kicked you out after your intro?
Yes.
How did you feel from that?
I went to a cigar bar and had a really good cigar and cried. I felt like I was being punished yet again or ostracized yet again. Like, “Your grief is different, so you cannot even sit in here with us with the cool kids.” I was being stuck once again at the end.
If you were to have spoken to that leader, what would you tell them now?
I’ve had it happen again. This time, I spoke up. It was done very kindly. “You may not be a good fit.” This time it was more because I am eight years in, and I’ve been a widow for a while. Unfortunately, out here to me, the closest group in these small areas all the widows here, I think the furthest one out is only four years in. When she said those words to me, and I went to that first meeting, and my engine wasn’t even cool from the drive home when I got that phone call.
She was like, “I don’t know that you’re going to be a good fit for this group, but I’m going to talk to my higher-up and see if there’s another one for you.” That night, just the trauma and the panic hit and froze me. It was really like, “No, not again.” I said, “We’ll talk tomorrow or something.” Hung up, and I gave it a few days. I was like, “No, I understand that, but I need to explain to her as a leader that there are better ways to do this.” I called her, and I just said, “Look, I know we got a little off track the other night. I was a little bit taken aback, and here’s why.
I explained what had happened at that other group and how traumatizing that had been for me.” She said, “That is not what I meant at all.” She’s like, “I just meant because you’re older than us, but you’re younger than all.” Being in my widow age was bigger, but my physical age is way younger. She’s like, “I just meant like you probably wouldn’t connect with us. I didn’t mean it that way.” I was like, “I know that now I’ve had a few days to reflect on it, but that night, like you have to realize like that, I’m just saying. Careful how you freeze it with people.”
Leave with that. You’re now three group groups you’ve been kicked out of. Where do we stand now?
“It’s me.” I don’t know.
You’re still not in one at all?
No, I am. I’m in that one. I was not kicked out of it. She was just like looking out for me. When I called her, I was just like, “I’m not going to do it.” When I called her and explained, “Look, I’m not coming to this group as a new widow. I’m coming because I’ve been a widow for a while. Sometimes you just need to get back to the core basics and having a connection.” I said, “We live in an area where there is no one. You are my only option. I know there are better options.” I’d have to drive two hours one way to get to them. I’m in that group. I was the problem there. My trauma response from those earlier groups was the problem there. Not her, but I was just like, “Wait a minute.”
Being a widow for a while requires you to get back to the core basics and have a connection. Share on XThat is helpful for someone reading this conversation. What I hear you saying is, keep trying, and sometimes a group may not fit for you, but sometimes a group may, and you felt a group fits for you, and you do have to look at the dynamics of the group and understand where do you fit. You’re not new in your widow journey, but there is a different conversation to be had for women who are more mature than younger women. Those things are part of it. I also feel as if a group with different ages group provides a dynamic to everybody can learn something from everyone.
I do, too. The online being able to do the groups like via Zoom. Honestly, COVID, while it stopped me from the group that I found and loved. I had a suicide specific loss group in the Austin area that I loved. I found one, man, we connected, and then COVID. Over time, the Zoom thing just ended, and I wasn’t in the Austin area anymore. Being able to do that, because now there are many of those groups online that you can connect with. There’s a ton of choices whether you’re looking for suicide specific or something else. There’s a lot of good support groups. You have a lot to choose from. You can be choosy. You don’t have to just take whatever.
Overcoming The Feeling Of Regret
Thank you for sharing that. What was the turning point in you becoming aware that you were not to blame for Jeff taking his life? What was the process for you coming to terms with that? Not saying that it still doesn’t creep in sometimes, but the heavy way that it did before.
Small steps. Again, first, really isn’t I’m not the only one that was feeling this way. Just honestly doing the work, doing the journaling, really facing the what ifs and the if onlys and then realizing that I did the best I could. There was one day in particular, and this just happened really maybe three years ago, where I stopped beating myself up with the regrets so severely. I was having a rough time. I was beating myself up with the regrets, the failures, the what-ifs, and the if onlys. I was doing the dark work. I was like, “We’re feeling the horrible.
We’re going to do what the books and the therapists have said.” I dug into hardcore what those what-ifs and if only it would look like. My number one, biggest one where I was like, “If I could just go back and change this one thing. If I had known more what was going on with the situation at hand,” I could have changed things or somehow changed the outcome, and Jeff would still be here.
When I went back and honestly looked at it with myself and said, “If I could go back and know what was going on, but only go back with the tools that I had at the time, what would that outcome look like that being the key.” With only the tools I had at the time, not all this new stuff I’ve gotten, because I cannot take that back with me. What would that have looked like? We’d both be dead, 100%. That really stopped me because then I went, “Wait, Jeff knew that. Jeff knew that about me. Like he knew that about me.”
He kept me in the dark on purpose, like choosing that I should stay. He made the choice. His was to go and leave me here on purpose because he knew I would have gone with him if I knew what was going on. When I had that reckoning ever since then, it’s been, “Jeff wanted me to stay, then I’m going to stay. It’s going to hurt. I’m going to fight like hell.” I got up off the floor that day. It did it but it changed my perspective on things when I admitted that openly to myself and my journal and now you.
The whole world is reading. All 4.3 million people that could be reading. Let’s go back to something you said, and thank you for being so transparent. Going back to the same situation with the tools you had then in. We wrestle with I could have done this and that, but we do that with our future brain. We generally did the best that we knew how to do with the information we had at the time. I look at it like this, and people go, “I could have done this and that.”
If you asked me what were yesterday’s winning lottery numbers, I could give those to you yesterday’s winning lottery numbers, but I had to know them yesterday for it to matter. We really couldn’t change what somebody else wants to do. You mentioned about Jeff keeping you in the dark. If it’s okay, a lot of times people struggle with, “I was married to them. I was supposed to know all the different things.” It is one of the things that people struggle with the most when their loved one has taken their life. They chose to hide that and not let you know.
Yeah. I think that you find that a lot in suicide loss, that they either weren’t telling you about a financial situation or some other big emotional situation going on. They keep their loved ones in the dark. I cannot speak for everybody, but I think it’s their way of trying to protect people. I know for me, not sharing my dark feelings and thoughts is a way of protecting people until it’s not protecting anyone, and it’s killing me.
Dealing With Other People’s Accusations
I want to circle back to something you said about other people trying to cast blame on you for Jeff’s decision. Have you ever responded to someone making those accusations towards you? If so, how did that look?
All the time in many different ways. It depends on where I was in my journey at the time. In the beginning, when people threw those accusations at me, I was very like, I wish I could have done more like apologetic when it would just break me down. When people say things like that to me now, I simply bless your heart. Your opinion matters absolutely zero to me.
For someone that is struggling with that very process of finding their voice as people are trying to cast blame on them, any recommendations or things that could help them in learning how to find their voice in that process?
It is taking so much work. What the biggest help for me in all of that, in really letting go of the shame and blame that I was placing on myself and dealing with what others were placing on me, Brene Brown. One of my friends told me who knew I was struggling at the time was like, “Have you read Brene Brown?” I said, “No, I haven’t listened to her podcast or anything.” She said, “You should.” I read her book, The Gifts of Imperfection.
That was a big one because I suddenly realized shame and blame were what killed Jeff. He was shaming and blaming himself, and other people were going to possibly throw at him in the humiliation. That’s what killed him. I would say you have to work through that. You have to work through becoming tough one when it comes to shame and blame.
I highly recommend Brene Brown’s The Gifts of Imperfection. Daring Greatly was another huge one. Speaking of Brene Brown, I have Atlas of the Heart, which the cover’s off of it, but I have Atlas of the Heart with me at all times. Look at this because it is used probably every bit as much as my thesaurus in my writing. It has become the dictionary of emotions and feelings and truly helped me put the right words to the right feelings. If that makes sense.
You have to do that work and be able to find ways to forgive yourself, especially with suicide. You have to forgive yourself, but also be able to know that not everyone is going to forgive you. People
are going to still shame and blame you. If I can let go, if I’m not blaming me anymore, then you cannot blame me either. No matter what you say, once I’ve let go of that self-blame, anything you say to me, trying to blame me, just bounces off.
You took your power back. That is huge. I wonder if the people who are blaming, is it their upper way of dealing with their own grief for the person that’s no longer here?
I think so. Think about it, it’s so easy to blame someone else or something else. We don’t want to blame the dead person.
They’re perfect now. They’ve been deified.
That’s too blunt. Sorry.
No, that’s true. It’s called real talk for a reason. We don’t want to blame them, but who else is there to blame but them? They did this thing. Let’s be clear. There were outlandish pressures and other different things, and they didn’t process them well. There could be contributing factors and other things that were part of that. It could be a society-type scenario that caused the pressure to do that. If you did not take their life, it’s not something you’re responsible for. Be clear. You love Jeff and would have never wanted that to happen.
Not in a million years. I would have absolutely taken that bullet instead. I would switch places with him in a heartbeat.
Taking that into consideration, it’s hard for me to realize the people that have come to you and try to blame you to realize this was your husband. You love him. You’re struggling enough with him no longer being here. I do not need your additional pressure of all things that I don’t need. What I need is your love and support and a safe space and to know that I am hurting in a way that you really cannot fathom.
You just are not afforded that with suicide because everybody has so many questions. I’m asking myself all these questions, but other people want to know too. When your husband died, where people were constantly asking you, “What happened? Why did that happen? Was he not eating well?”
The question is, and you bring up a good point, and I hear this a lot. People want to go, “How did they die?”
I hate that question. Ninety percent of the time, I do not say suicide.
What do you say?
Here’s the thing with people, and I realized I’m not the only one that does this in groups. Thank you, suicide groups. There’s such a huge stigma around suicide loss, and people will immediately judge you or attack you or your person and are not afraid to give you their opinions on it. I tend to, if I don’t know the person or something and they will be like, “I loss my husband.” If they ask how, I’ll just say his heart gave out. When I come out and just go, “He died by suicide,” people will like clutch their pearls, and you just never know what you’re going to get. Unless I’m prepared to first all the responses, I just go with his heart just gave out.
That is so unfair.
A lot of people do that. We sat in a group and swapped different lines that we’ve given out.
What are they? Do share.
I cannot even off the top of my head think of any, but just things like pressure. What do you say? Like somebody was like, “He died in a car wreck,” which that is absolutely not anywhere near. Whatever was going to get her out of this situation, I mean, you will say anything.
Talking about not feeling comfortable and feeling uncomfortable already, it’s like your husband’s no longer here. To protect other people and the responses, you have to give them something palatable. The conversation or they could care or be sympathetic. You have to give them a different version because they cannot handle the truth.
Literally every single person I encounter, and to this day, eight years in and totally comfortable with talking about suicide and all the dark stuff. I still do that. It’s not even a conscious. It’s I will read the person and be like, “Maybe won’t respond so well to this.” It’s a read-the-room situation. Again, it’s mostly where I am that day. If I am in a place where I am capable of handling it gracefully and respectfully, I will say it. If I am not, then his heart gave up. Otherwise, if you come back with something mean, nasty, selfish, or something like that, I might punch you.
Free speech and throw punches sometimes, I’ve learned to go together.
I verbally slash though, and I verbally slash in a way that will have you questioning your heritage.
Being Comfortable With The Dark Things Of Grief
I did that. When you talk, when you say you’re comfortable with talking about grief and all the dark things about it. What are those dark things about it?
Having that reckoning that day. Once again, I felt like I had just failed and screwed up and all of this was compiling and here I was I was like, “I’m coming to Jeff. I’m going to kill myself. I cannot handle this pressure anymore.” That’s when that hit. Jeff wanted me to stay, made that conscious choice to not tell me so that I wouldn’t do that. Every time I’m in that darkness, I have to find a reason. I have to find a light. I am not afraid to talk about that I fight that darkness.
Now I’m eight years in, so it’s not like an all the time thing, but can that grief still pop up and not round my feet? Yeah. I’m okay to talk about it. I feel like, honestly, being able to talk about it has helped stop it. I guess when I’m in the bottom of that darkness, every single time, what hits me the hardest is just when I’m like, “I cannot do it anymore.” That demon of suicide comes up, and that’s visually how I see it. I’m in the darkness, there’s this demon of suicide in front of me, and I just want to grab out and get relief and just grab it. When I look up into its face, I’m like, “Take me.” I realize you’re the asshole that took my husband and I hate you. I fight.
I fight like what?
I fight like a maniac because you took what I loved most, and I want nothing more than to shred you. That’s like every time. The devil runs for fear, holding his balls in his hand.
What does your shirt say?
I wear purple and teal for someone I miss every single day.
Writing And Podcasting About Grief Journey
Suicide prevention. You said earlier writing something for your YouTube. What is that about?
I tried to start a YouTube, or I’m trying to start a YouTube and podcast. I’m terrible at this. It’s called Widow Wit and Wisdom. It’s just a place where I talk about my grief journey and trying to get through it and the healing and just what it’s looked like for me where I talk about those dark, ugly things and how I’ve gotten through it. I’m hoping to have people on. Do you want to be on my YouTube channel? Will you be my guest?
Yes, I would be a guest. We all have wisdom to share.
You’re a veteran.
You and I have been widowed the same amount.
I see your army.
Yes, 21 years in the army. Veteran, yes.
I see your army. My son’s a veteran. I know so many people like went through the suicide awareness and prevention stuff. Honestly, let’s face it, it’s dominantly veteran-based. The real work that’s being done in suicide awareness and prevention is mostly behind the veterans supported.
Holding On One Breath At A Time
I would definitely say, in this time, day and time, huge veteran first responders, and then also a lot from medical workers being in the front line and seeing a lot of horrific things, pandemic and long hours that have driven people. Unfortunately, to the end of themselves and needing to know give it 24 hours and things could look differently. Those pressures of life can be so heavy and so difficult and get into a tailspin of thinking that there’s no other way out but to remove yourself. There, people love you, and people want you to be here, and you add value to this world, and we would want you to stay. If you were to talk to yourself now, knowing what you know now, and you to talk to Sarah the day after Jeff took himself from this world, what would you tell yourself?
The day after?
Yeah. You get to all the knowledge you have now, you get to talk to and you would talk to you.
Honestly, the day after I would have just held her and just let her cry and just let her break and just said, “This is going to really suck, but you are one hell of a fighter and you’re going to make it. I’m not saying people won’t get bruised, battered, and beaten up.” I would just say, “Just hold on. One breath at a time.” In those early days, all I needed was just somebody to hold me and let me break. I was never allowed to break. I was never allowed to be broken. I wasn’t allowed to grieve. That’s one of the things with suicide loss that people don’t realize. You’re not oftentimes allowed to grieve. You’re told your grief is less than. That your person was selfish, so you shouldn’t be sad that they died because they chose this.
Sometimes, people are not allowed to grieve. Share on XHorrible.
You get told this all the time. I got told right after the funeral, “Was he even allowed at the funeral?” One of the few things I remember like a guy saying, “I’ll be praying for Jeff’s soul because he’s in hell.” People are wonderful.
What are some things people could have said to you?
Could have said? Simply, “I am so sorry. I just cannot believe this happened. We love Jeff so much, and we know you’re shattered. We know that this just ripped you apart because you two loved each other so much, and it’s not what happened.”
That’s enough.
No, that’s it. Just, “I know how big your love was, so I know how big this hole is, and I’m going to sit here and hold you and fill up as much of that hole as I can. I know it’s not enough, but I’m going to do what I can.”
It’s rocket science.
That’s all I needed, and there was no one to give that to you. That wasn’t exclusive to me. I was thinking, “It’s just me.” Again, when I went to the support groups, I found out everybody had that. We’ve heard stories of pastors that wouldn’t do the services. I know the pastor that did Jeff’s service never spoke to me. This was a pastor of a church that we had raised our children in and never spoke to me at the service. Never reached out or called me to check on me after.
I called him years later when I was in that support group that I really liked and with the therapist that I really liked and just said, “Look, was it because Jeff died by suicide? That’s why you never reached out? You never called. You completely ignored me. You treated us like we didn’t exist.” He was just like, “I didn’t even realize I did it.”
How Losing Her Husband Impacted Sarah’s Religion
Did it impact your faith?
It did not impact my faith. It impacted my religion. I lost my religion, but my faith was never dented.
What’s the difference for you for faith and religion?
The pastor versus what I believe. For a while, it wasn’t that my faith was broken. It was that my faith in the church was broken because here I was being told, “He’s in hell. You’re never going to have to spend him with an attorney.” I went, “The God I know and have loved all of my life never said that that’s the church saying that.” I lost all faith in the church, especially when it been ignored by it, which in my mind said that they thought he was in hell and I was no longer welcome, basically.
When you need the church to show up the most. For a pastor that could be reading to this conversation or some clergy or some member in their church, what is something that people in religion should know about supporting someone that’s grieving?
Someone that’s grieving or someone that’s grieving a suicide loss?
Either or.
Don’t come at them with judgment. Don’t come at them with shame and blame. If you cannot come at those people and be part of their grief process with anything but grace, love, compassion, and kindness, don’t show up at all. If you’re going to judge them, shame them, and blame them, and make them feel worse, don’t show up. They don’t need anybody throwing any more dirt on that grave that they’re putting themselves in. That’s what I would say. Show up with a shovel. Not but a shovel to help dig them out. Not to add to the pile.
Experiencing Memory Gaps Due To Grief
Do you realize how much you’ve learned over these last eight years?
Only when I look back at the journals and stuff because it’s funny when I go back and look at the journal entries and I’m like, “That was cute. You had no clue.” Being like a mom. When you’re looking at your grandchildren or I have grandbabies and I’m like, “Yeah.” That’s cute.
I appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation. Have we talked about everything you wanted to discuss, or is there anything we haven’t talked about?
I don’t even know what we talked about. I am in such a panic doing all this. My anxiety is just flying. I have no idea what I’ve said, what I haven’t said, how I’ve said it. I’ve probably completely humiliated myself.
Readers, as you listen to the podcast, please share comments to see if she completely humiliated herself. Any questions for me? I’ve asked you a lot of questions that you don’t remember, but do you have any questions for me?
I have so many. That’s why I need you to like, come be on my podcast because I have, like, questions for you from being in the military standpoint. Especially with the mental health care and that the VA stuff provides. How has your grief process been? Please tell me, because we’re both eight years in like what are you doing? Just so I can cage.
We do not compare. You know that is unfair.
That was one of the hardest things, wasn’t it? I know for me, because I was like, “I thought I was supposed to feel better by now, like at year one.” I didn’t. I started really comparing myself to other widows. I’m like, “I’m doing this wrong.”
You make a good point that we shouldn’t compare them because it is very different. It is different from where we were age-wise. It was different from the circumstances of our spouse’s passing. From you speaking, it has been different from the community that showed up and supported and a lot of different that vary in that process. I started seeing a therapist the day before I saw Mark’s body for the first time. I leaned into this in a different way. I was 49 when Mark passed. He passed, and then I turned 50, I want to say the next year. No, I was 49, I turned 50 that May, and Mark passed in March. different ages. A lot of different things. I’m going to save it for your conversation on your podcast.
My heart just went into my stomach when you said that you had a 50th birthday just months later.
I remember nothing.
We’re to talk all about that.
I have nothing to remember to tell you. Maybe I have the timeline wrong. Hold on. Now I got to do some math.
I have to do that too well? I keep forgetting how old I was when he died, but then I did 43 twice, like two years later.
I am about to be 59. I would have been born on my 51st birthday because he passed in March, and then my birthday was after that. There are such scattered pieces of memory from that first year. It’s like, “Glitch, that happened.” The sequence of events is not as consistent as other different times in my life.
There is so much I don’t remember. I was talking to somebody not that long ago about Jeff’s funeral, like a friend who was there. They told me something like I didn’t remember, like that song or whatever. I didn’t remember that.
Even though it sounds morbid, I wish I had it recorded because there was so much that I didn’t remember. I wish that I could have gone back and go, “That’s what happened.” I don’t remember what people said. It’s like, “Dang on it. I should have thought to ask someone to do that.”
I know. You’re right. It sounds morbid. If we don’t think of it at that time, I don’t know about you, but my brain was just not mushy. There was nothing there. It was like a newborn baby.
Episode Wrap-up And Closing Words
I will allow you to close out this conversation, and there’ll be a part two when I’m on your podcast. You will let them know about that. I’ll let you close out with final words.
Just for any widows out there, hang in there. I know you hate hearing this, but it takes time and patience and working through the hard stuff. I know you probably don’t want to journal, but journal. Even if it’s just writing a quick sentence or two, whether it’s a good one, whether it’s just letting off steam, whatever. Definitely find the people that you feel safe and comfortable with to finally let off steam. Definitely, just be the light in somebody’s day. Just be kinder and compassionate and extend more grace to people anywhere you can because you do not know what people are going through. You don’t. That’ll be it.
Be the light of somebody’s day. Extend more grace to people anywhere you can because you do not know what they are going through. Share on XThank you for being here, and thank you for being part of this conversation. I am sorry for the person that you may have lost that is driven you to this conversation, but I’m glad you found us, and I look forward to speaking with you next week.
Me too. Thank you.
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Thank you for supporting Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. Thank you for every show that you have read to. Now, I’m asking you to help celebrate my birthday because Widowhood Real Talk with Tina is a registered 501c3 nonprofit established to support the breed. How you can help is by donating $5. Here we are in the month of May for my birthday, five and five. See what I’m doing there? You can do that by texting HOPEFORWIDOWHOOD to 53555. You can donate $5 to help support what we’re doing to support the bereaved. You’re helping us help other people. That’s how I want to celebrate my birthday. if you would text HOPE or WIDOWHOOD to 53555 and then you can donate and help what we’re doing. Thank you so much.
Important Links
About Dr. Sarah Johnston
Life changed forever on November 29, 2016, when I lost my husband, Jeff, to suicide. After 22 years of marriage, his passing shattered my world in ways I never could have imagined. But through the heartbreak, I have gained a profound perspective, deeper understanding, and a renewed sense of purpose.
Now, eight years later, I am on a mission to share a message of compassion, hope, and healing. Through my YouTube and podcast, I open up about grief, resilience, and the lessons I’ve learned along the way. My goal is to create a space where others—whether they have faced loss themselves or want to support someone who has—can find comfort, connection, and encouragement.
Healing is not about “moving on” but about moving forward with love, grace, and understanding. I hope my journey can offer reassurance that even in our darkest moments, hope and healing are possible.
You can follow/contact me at Widow Wit and Wisdom on YouTube, Podcast platforms and TikTok Email: widowwitandwisdom@gmail.com
