How To Bring Lightness Into Grief With Marie Alessi
Grief is quite challenging to deal with all year round, but it can be specifically tougher during the holiday season. Keynote speaker Marie Alessi talks about her mission to bring lightness into grief, not to make it completely go away, but instead make it much easier to handle. Reflecting on the sudden passing of her husband, she stresses the importance of embracing joy despite the sadness – regardless of what other people may think. Marie also offers practical advice on raising children after your partner passes away, responding to insensitive comments about grief, and finding your very own North Star amid your grieving journey.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
How To Bring Lightness Into Grief With Marie Alessi
Our guest,Marie, has provided the number one answer to give to someone that is grieving. I’ve never heard it, but I’m going to be using it every day going forward. Let’s get into this conversation now.
When you hear, “Welcome to the widowhood,” what’s the ticker tape in your mind?
It was very bizarre when you just said that it came unexpected. I’m like, “Is it something to want to be welcome to?” That’s the first thought that came up. Here we are in this club together.
Marie Alessi’s Journey Of Loss And Grief
It is, and I hear that phrase. It’s a club that no one wants to be in, do you think we think about this club in the onset of marriage? First of all, let me say this, thank you for being part of this special series, Voices of Widowhood: Healing Through the Holidays. We’re having this conversation with the intentionality that people during the holidays, grief hits you a different way. Our conversation is focused around that intent. I want everyone in our community to get to know you first.
Thank you. I don’t think it’s anything that you ever think of when you get married. However, my background is maybe slightly different because my mom became a widow when she was 43. My dad passed away when he was 46. I was only twenty. It was somewhat in the back of my mind, however, never in a way that I thought, “This could potentially happen to me.” I never thought of that.
I don’t think anybody ever does until it does. Oftentimes, our vows say, “Until death do us part,” or these words are there, “For richer or poorer, in sickness or health,” but when they actually show up and your life is transformed and you are advocate of grief, you bring lightness into grief, how do you do all those things for yourself and for others?
I think it comes back to what I just shared before that my dad died when I was really young. I had already a very intense shift happening in my life at the age of twenty, where everybody’s going about being young and happy and completely carefree. That carefree stopped for me the day my dad passed. I remember the first one and a half years, roughly. I had no idea how to handle my grief. It was debilitating. It numbed me.
It was just something that pulled the rug underneath my feet. Nobody teaches you how to deal with grief. Society’s expectation is when somebody dies, and especially for a widow, especially for a young widow, your life is over, basically. There’s this expectation that grief will last forever. There’s language like, “There’ll always be a hole in my heart.”
I don’t succumb to any of those beliefs. I don’t use language like that. The way I bring lightness into grief is by sharing different perspectives. I am so big on teaching and sharing about the allowing, allowing joy back in, allowing love back in. When you look at the before and after timeline, before somebody dies in your life, it is so normal. Nobody would ever question that.
There’s joy, there’s sadness, there’s happiness, there’s tears, there’s all sorts of emotions all over the place, especially for women before somebody dies. Afterwards, all of a sudden there’s grief. I’m like, “Not true.” It’s not the reality. The reality of it is that there’ll be smiles and happy tears or laughter even of joyful memories or new memories that you create. Guilt comes in because society teaches you that that’s not part of it, and that’s not true.
I’m going to share a very quick scenario that happened at portrays that so perfectly. One of the songs that I always sang to Rob was “Love is in the Air” because there was so much love between us. I would always sing and I sing when I’m happy. That’s just what I do. I would often sing that song to him. I remember I was standing in the kitchen one day after Rob died. I was cutting some vegetables, I was preparing dinner, and I started singing “Love is in the Air.”
All of a sudden, there was this guilt that came in. I remember vividly that quick train of thoughts that rushed through my head and I forced myself to continue singing. It wasn’t with the same enthusiasm and with the same, like as I usually do with all my heart, with all my body, with everything. I forced myself not in a negative way. I really encouraged myself to keep singing.
That was very pivotal for me because I thought in my head, “This is what Rob would want. This is what we promised to each other.” We’ll get to that promise probably in a minute in that talk. It was really something that was really important for me to continue that love and connection and the joy that we have created together. Differently, of course. I’ll not want to leave that behind.
Thank you for sharing that because I believe so many people struggle with having to choose in their mind, either have to choose to be happy or choose to be sad. In choosing to be sad, I am honoring my loved one. I’m honoring my grief. If I’m choosing to be happy, it equates that I’ve forgotten about them and I’ve moved on, not bored in my life. I’m not a good widow if you find me laughing. I’m not a good widow if you find me wearing a vibrant color or going out with friends.
How Marie Met His Late Husband
You can be both. You can be sad about your spouse not being here and you can be happy that your life exists and enjoying what you get to do in this world as long as your time exists. That is one of the biggest struggles. You mentioned about Robert. How did you guys meet and where are you having this conversation from right now?
I am in Sydney, Australia. I moved here in 2004. I always had this really strong calling to move to the other side of the world, like Sydney had my heart before I ever came here. When I was 25, I thought, “I’m going to go and check it out.” It took me another almost 7 years and 11 flights back and forth to finally officially make Sydney my home. Ten months after I moved here, I met Rob. Another ten months later, we were married. If anybody would’ve told me that, I would’ve said, “Are you crazy? There’s no way. If he’s Mr. Right, he’ll still be Mr. Right after 3 to 5 years. There’s no rush.”
When I met Rob, people often say this, “When you know, you know.” I was always like, “What do you mean by that? What does that even mean?” When I met Rob, I knew what it meant. When you know, you know and I’m like, “I know now.” It was such a whirlwind how it all unfolded. I met him in May. I realized I fell in love with him in June and in July, he started moving in.
Lightness: People often say, “When you know, you know.” I experienced that when I met Robert. It was such a whirlwind how it all unfolded.
In August, he met my friends. In October, he proposed and in March, we had our barefoot wedding. It was such a whirlwind. I can honestly say it was not one second of regret in the entire time I was with him. I’m really grateful. Hindsight is always 20/20 vision. I’m grateful that it all happened. I’m just super blessed. It was a fully set up double date, by the way.
We always like some good tea on the show, so we want to hear about the double date. Now I want to hear about this promise that you briefly mentioned.
Double date. I used to go to karaoke nights. One of my very close friends used to love singing. She was a really very enthusiastic karaoke fan. I would go with her. We would go every Thursday night. For those from Australia, some of you might know the Menzies Sports Bar in Sydney. They had their karaoke nights on every Thursday, and then they even doubled up and did Thursday and Friday.
We were regulars, we knew the DJ. We had so much fun there. It was just always a very casual and super fun night. I met this chick there, we got on really well. We had one of those chats, as you do between girls. “It would be nice to meet a nice man for a change.” She’s like, “I know a nice young man.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s what they all say.” She started telling me about this guy. I looked at her and I was like, “He sounds too good to be true. Where’s the catch?” She’s like, “No catch.” I’m like, “Where does he live?” “At his parents’ place in Green Lake.” I’m like, “There’s the catch.”
“What do you think? He’s lived out of home for like five years with his girlfriend. After they broke up, he moved into the granny flat to help them build the house extension.” I’m like, “That is so adorable. That is so beautiful.” Yes, completely independent in the granny flat just to help them out. I thought, “That was so nice. I need to meet this guy.”
I met him. I have to say there wasn’t instant like fireworks and all of that like in my usual relationships that I had before. I always compare that. Before, I had relationship with lots of fireworks and lots of ashes. With Rob, there was this little flame that started burning brighter and brighter and never stopped becoming brighter for the entire time we were together. There was this ongoing, steady growth of love between us. That’s what I said. It took me six weeks to realize I was in love with him. Not like the usual, “I met this guy.”
Something different came from something different, I hear.
Absolutely. He said he knew from the second he saw me. That’s what he told me. I felt a bit of pressure because I was going through my working visa, getting my visa sorted. I had lots of stress at work. I just felt pressure from all sides. I’m like, “I really like you, but just don’t pressure me, basically.”
You didn’t put him in the friend zone? You kept him close?
I put him in the friend zone. My brain started ticking because he didn’t call me anymore.
You did put him in the friend zone.
For about ten days. Ten days after, we had this phone call and we caught up.
You missed him. You gave it a beat and then you realized, “I need some more time with Robert.”
“He doesn’t call me anymore. What have I done?” It ended up with flowers being sent to my office. It was not my birthday, it was something else. I can’t remember. Somehow, he sent me two dozens of red roses to my office with a vase, with chocolates, with a cart. The whole shebang and I thought, “This guy is a real gentleman. He really knows what he’s doing.”
We caught up and somehow along the lines, I realized I feel so much more for him than I thought. That night, I’m going to share that quickly as well, when we had dinner and I gave him that friend zone speech, I remember sitting over dinner, we had the best conversation ever. I looked at him and I thought, “I wish I could fall in love with this guy. He’s just so perfect.”
I didn’t have those sparks yet. I didn’t know that other way of developing love, like true love. That all happened. My wish was granted. I did fall in love with him and the rest is history. Beautiful barefoot beach wedding. Two boys. The house near the beach. Later, I started my own business, got out of corporate world.
We got married in 2006. In 2015, Rob came home late from work and he gave me a buzz on the way home. He said, “Babe, I’m going to be about two hours late. There was an accident on Heathcote Road.” Heathcote Road was all the way through a national park, there’s no side road. You have to go the way around. It was a huge detour, peak-hour traffic.
We learned later that night that there was a front-on collision with a truck. A young fireman off duty has lost his life in a front-on collision. His wife was waiting at home with their sixteen-month-old daughter. That really hit home for us because our boys were only a couple of years old. We ended up having the conversation. It was the most pivotal conversation in my entire life without knowing at the time.
The conversation was about, “What would you do if something was to happen to me?” For both of us. We looked at each other. We had a really long conversation. I’m still having goosebumps just thinking about it. It was such a beautiful, sad, confronting and super important conversation. It was very bonding to talk about these things. In a nutshell, the conversation ended in, “I would want you to create the happiest life possible for you and the boys.” That was the very sentence that echoed in my head when I had to share the news of their dad’s passing with our boys. I didn’t know how to do that in that very moment, but this promise became my North Star in my darkest hour.
How To Find Your Very Own North Star
That is a gift that you and I both share. What I would ask you, for the widow that is reading this conversation and she never got that gift, any recommendations on how to find peace in that or how to find her North Star that she so desperately needs and wants?
Yeah, I have a very simple solution for that. I understand I always use the word simple deliberately, because it’s not always easy. The simple solution for that, and I still use that despite having the promise, despite having had this conversation, when I get stuck, when I feel I need an answer, I need help, I need guidance, I don’t know how to decide this, I don’t know how to do this on my own, etc., I do the role reversal.
I put myself in Rob’s shoes and I look down on Marie and I tell her everything she needs to know because from his perspective, that’s what I believe, anyway. I honor and know that everybody’s got different spiritual beliefs. From my perspective, I know that Rob is in a state of pure love and all understanding and knowing. From that perspective, it is really such a beautiful role swap for me to put myself in his shoes where I’m coming from a space of pure love and talk to Marie about what I feel that she needs. It’s a full-on role swap. Everybody can do that. I’m going to give you a very fun story. Between widows, I can say that this was a fun story.
We have the dark humor thing going on.
I had one widow. She was like, “My husband wouldn’t want me to be happy. My husband wouldn’t want me to move on with somebody else.” She did that and I was like, “Alright, let’s swap it from a space of pure and unconditional love. What would you want for her?” I had such a beautiful relationship with Rob. For me, unconditional love and Rob is completely interchangeable. Always come from the space of love. What would love do? That has become my absolute mantra through the highest highs and lowest lows. What would love do? That’s the only thing you need.
I love that for me because I had an amazing relationship with my husband. You and I, on this process of being in this space for people in grief, there are some people that their spouse’s passing was just the edge of a divorce that could have happened. There are some people that were in domestic violence, they were not in a healthy place. They don’t think that their spouse would have love for them. How do they reconcile that part of them and be able to give themself the grace to be able to move forward in life?
This is my spiritual belief. The most beautiful part is that as soon as they died, it was already reconciled. There’s nothing left to reconcile. They pass into pure and unconditional love. It’s done. There’s no space for reconciliation. There is no space for guilt, there’s no space for shame. It’s been solved for you. It’s the biggest gift.
I’m saying that with a huge disclaimer because when you’re not ready to receive that gift, it can feel prematurely for you to hear those words. They might not make sense, or they might even trigger a little bit of anger or resentment when I say those things. What I’m saying is, open your heart to the possibility of love. I’m not necessarily talking about intimate love or a new relationship, but I’m not excluding it. I’m talking love in general. Open your heart with a possibility of love. You’d be surprised from how many different angles and in what different forms and shapes love comes into your life after you have experienced something like that.
I will also put that on your closest circle. I don’t know how you went with that, Tina. I was very surprised both ways. With some people, closest circle, I thought they’d be there for me and they weren’t. Other people were coming out of the woodworks where I didn’t expect them at all. All of a sudden, they became my closest circle. Both was there.
My inner circle definitely changed. That’s why I’m saying open your heart to the possibility of love because that also comes in people that want to support you and be there for you. You need to learn to set boundaries, be clear on what you need and what you don’t need because people will want to help. Sometimes, that can feel very overwhelming when people just want to come in and just drop in quickly.
Lightness: Open your heart to the possibility of love. You will be surprised by how many different angles and forms of it come into your life after experiencing grief.
Don’t realize how vulnerable your personal space becomes in that time. For the people reading this, wanting to support, send a quick text up front or a quick call. Don’t just go there, knock on the door. It’s like, “I just wanted to,” if that times 100 a day or times 20 can be super overwhelming, even though it comes from a beautiful intention. Show up and offer simple solutions.
“I can come pa past today. I can cook for you this week. Do you want Tuesday or Thursday? I’ll cook for you on Thursday. Would you prefer fish or salad or pasta?” Just give them simple solutions. A or B. Don’t ask them, just let me know when. Just let me know what. You are not capable of making these decisions with your widow brain.
What To Say To A Grieving Person (And What You Must Never Say)
That part right there. Give the answer. We can hardly figure out what we did the last five minutes. I love, “Would you like fish or chicken? This day or that day?” You know them well enough to ask the question. Just let it be simple for them. Yes. You mentioned earlier about people not knowing what to say. Oftentimes, people lean in. These are the things people have said to me. Can we start with what are some things people should say?
Yeah, absolutely. One of my go-to lines because it is such a, how long is a piece of question? We never know what the situation’s like the person like, even if we know the person every minute of the day can be different. It’s really tricky because you never know how they receive it. My number one go-to is, “I never assume that this was the worst thing that ever happened to you.”
It might sound very controversial when I say that, but it’s so depends on your spiritual journey and where you are at. I had some spiritual epiphanies in my journey with Rob where I was like, “What a gift.” It sounds weird to say that, but Rob and I had a sole contract and this was all part of it. I recognized this soul contract a couple of months into his passing.
It was quite overwhelming. It took me a long time to process to accept it into wholeheartedly understand it. From that perspective now, how could I have said, “I’m sorry for your loss to somebody,” when I have this spiritual epiphany where I feel so overwhelmed with this gift that he has given me in his passing. My go-to is, “My heart goes out to you.” I feel it. I mean it when I say it because it’s literally just, “I’m opening my heart to yours.” That creates the space for whatever it needs to happen in that space. That’s all I do.
I mean it when I say it. I never use these words lightheartedly or just as a phrase. I feel it. I mean it when I say it, “My heart goes out to you.” That’s my number one go-to when I don’t know what else to say. I never revert to “My condolences.” Never. I’m never to, “I’m sorry for your loss,” because I don’t know the person and the situation and their spiritual contract enough to be sorry for them. I don’t want that. I even talked to my boys about it, and I said, “I don’t like that. I’m sorry. I don’t want people to say, ‘I’m sorry for your loss,’ to me.” It’s interesting.
I plan to use that because it’s such a tricky thing to know what to say to someone, but that is sincerely, “What is going on? My heart is going out to you in this situation.” I am going to make a statement and then I would like you to give alternative for people. “Your loved one’s in a better place.”
That feels like such a slap in the face to receive that. I absolutely loathe when somebody says that. I would rather have somebody say, “How do you feel right now? Do you want me to sit with you? Would you like to talk about him? Would you want to tell me about him? I’d love to hear about him.” There are so many things that you can open this conversation with, but how dare you say to me he’s in a better place?
Do you know that that comes up for me? This is a thing I want to pause you for a little bit because I know you wanted to do the alternatives, but this is such an important one. I really want to say something else about this. If I as the widow come to the understanding that my loved one is in a better place, that’s often when they were in a really long battle with cancer, with something terminal and they’ve been suffering. I come to the understanding he’s in a better place now. That is such a beautiful gift to come to this place. If somebody says it to me, it feels like a slap in the face because it’s not their gift to unwrap. It’s mine. They’re taking something really important away from me. You can’t do that. People don’t understand what they’re doing when they say that.
That is perfect because people need to have an alternative because when the person is grieving, your tongue is stuck. Inside, they may be feeling as you just express, but their ability to convey that in a rational manner is difficult. That is why I knew you had the language for that, because they’re going to hear that a lot during the holidays. They’re going to be able to create their own version of this. To also validate. You shouldn’t have to be okay with that. You’re perfectly fine to not be in a positive reception to that type of statement because oftentimes for women, we’re trying to be polite or be kind and inside we’re going, “What is wrong with you?” How about this one? “This is your third Christmas. You should be over this by now.”
It’s not a sickness that you get over. People’s expectation of how fast you are supposed to move through this is just so off. If you are happy too soon, it’s like, “She didn’t even grieve him properly.” If you are still unhappy, then it’s like, “You should be over this by now.” My go-to is you don’t understand or when people say, “I don’t understand why you’re not.” I’m like, “I’m glad you don’t. I’m really glad you don’t understand because it means that you haven’t experienced it yet.” For me, there’s always that, how do you draw a line really politely? You can even say that, “I do need to draw the line here because you’re talking about something you don’t understand.” You can really say that.
Yes, because you said earlier about the idea of not being able to speak to something you don’t understand. If I come to your place of work and told you how to do something that I had no clue about, it would be acceptable for you to say, “That’s not the standard that we use here. That’s not how we do this work.” How would someone else come and tell you in your lived experience how that’s supposed to be? Even if you’re another widow, who am I to dictate to you? If you’re not harming yourself, you’re not having some unhealthy coping skills and denial, it’s just hard to live in this world without your spouse.
I can tell you what I would like to say to them when they say that, but I would never say it out loud. It depends on a situation. If it’s bad enough and I can be cheeky enough, I would probably say, “How many husbands have you lost?” See what happens in that silence. I love it.
Why Women Are Better At Hiding Emotions
I was like, “That’s a different version of the same answer.” “For what space do you give me this advice? How many spouses have you lost?” That’ll shut it down. That’ll shut it down very quickly. Do you think women have a harder time conveying how they really feel?
They’ve got a better way of hiding it, I would say. Women have a better way of hiding emotions because we are so used to dealing with a billion things at a time. Women are the multitaskers. Men are the ones focused on one thing at a time. It’s from hunter and gathering. It’s just the way that our brains are wired. Women are so used to sitting around the fireplace, chitchatting, doing a billion things at the same time. Men hunt.
I know we are not in cave time anymore, but we’re still wired like that. As women, we always called the emotional species versus the men, but we are also quite good at masking our true emotions and being brave and showing up as brave. When I see a woman really brave, I know there’s a lot going on behind the scenes and I’ve learned to ask the right questions at the right time. I would not out a woman in public about things like that, but when it’s a one-on-one conversation, I can have the true heart-to-heart. “How are you really feeling?” Sometimes, just a simple question like that can unfold a lot. Just creating that space for her to come out.
Dealing With Small Children In Grief And The Holidays
It’s like we’re doing here in this conversation. We are creating a space for someone to read this discussion and know that it’s okay how they feel. Dealing with small children in grief and the holidays. Any suggestions or share your lived experience in that?
Yeah, I’d like to share my lived experience with that because Rob died in June. We had about half a year to prepare for all these first milestones to come without him. The first Christmas, New Year’s, both the boys birthdays are in January. Rob and I had actually planned a trip around the world for an entire year. We wanted to homeschool them. We started an online business that started to become very lucrative and we wanted to just do that for an entire year and then he died. I still had the entire itinerary. I thought, “I can’t do this on my own. I can’t possibly travel to South America with two boys on my own as a widow.” I was grieving, homeschooling. That’s no way I can do homeschooling and grieving on my own at the same time.
This is a pivotal moment again. I always look at what can I do? “What can’t I do or I can’t do this without him. I can’t do this without him,” it’s very debilitating. You’re digging a hole and you’re sinking deeper and deeper. I always look at what can I do? What can I do on my own? I remember standing in the travel agency and I was looking at this big world map, and I had a couple of things picked out already where I wanted to go with the boys. There was this one week where we had nothing planned. The first week of our trip had no destination yet because one destination was the Canary Islands. My godfather migrated to Canary Islands. I always wanted to go there. He is such a father figure for me.
I knew that would be such a safe space to land, literally. We had nine days there and he had a couple of holiday houses like, “I’ve got this one house. It’s empty for those nine days. You can have it.” I’m like, “Yes.” I had this one week extra, I’m like, “Where are we going to go?” I was standing at the travel agent with the big world map and I had my finger on the Canary Islands and I had my finger on Australia. I literally went, “What’s in the middle? We’re going to the Maldives.” We had a week in the Maldives to start our trip off after all that intense time of losing their dad, flying across the country to identify his body, arranging the funeral.
The first holy communion of my little one without his dad then going back to school, back and forth, staying home, writing my first book. There was all this stuff that happened in that very short timeframe and then we went on a trip away for two months. We traveled around the world. It was the best thing I could have ever done. I understand not everybody has got the means to travel, but if you can, change something about your routine, because celebrating the holidays the way you’ve always done it makes it, in my opinion, in my humble opinion, harder to deal with it. Completely, deliberately changing it. Even doing a weekend away. You don’t have to worry about anybody else. A lot of people go, “Be here, but I should be there and I should be with family.”
Don’t you crap on me. Just do what your heart desires. If you decide to be with family, do it. If you decide to be away and hide, do it. I know this opinion. “You can’t hide away from grief.” Yeah, you can. It’ll probably hide with you but you don’t have to be with the whole expectation of family and of the environment where you usually are or how’s she going to deal with that? All eyes on you, it’s so much pressure. If you feel like running away, do it. It’s fine. If you are allowed to run away from it. It’ll be waiting for you. Don’t worry.
You’re talking about skipping now. You’re not talking about running away from everything forever. You’re saying to give yourself space to be able to do that.
Yeah. I can promise you it is a lot easier to deal with that wave that is coming, sitting in your private pool, in an overwater bungalow in the Maldives, looking out onto the ocean, watching the fish go by than being at home where you feel his absence so much more. Now I should create a happy Christmas on my own for them. We even had the tooth fairy and the Santa conversation in that pool, and I thought, “What an amazing place to have that conversation.” At the same time, everything inside of me was like, “No, not this year. Please give me one more year where they believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.” Yeah, we had that conversation there and then, and it’s now a beautiful memory, not a painful one.
Those are words of hope. Those are words of encouragement. I love how you wrapped it down to no matter what your financial situation is. Maybe it’s going for a walk in the park versus where you would sit at home and cry, changing your scenery. One of the things that I find found very helpful, and I recommend to people, sometimes you may say, “I don’t want to live here anymore,” but you may not have the means to relocate.
How Grief Is Like Waves Of The Ocean
If you change the furniture around in the house, a can of paint, it changes the muscle memory of what you’re looking at and it allows you to see it from a different perspective, refreshing where you’re at and have a way of helping you manage this process. You said something about a wave. Can you go a little bit more into that wave and what that looks like and some suggestions on how to manage that?
I very often describe or compare grief with the ocean because sometimes you look out in the ocean, it looks all calm and quiet, and then you step in and all of a sudden, you have this undercurrent and you didn’t see it coming. It just sucks you in. You can literally feel like you are drowning. Sometimes, especially people living near the ocean, they would understand that you don’t fight a current in the ocean. You turn on your back and you breathe and you wait the current to wash you out on the other side.
There is a lot of similarities in the way we deal with grief and the way we deal with the ocean. That amazing quote, it so feeds into that comparison. People often say, “We are in the same boat,” and there’s actually a meme, an image to that. One is in this luxury yacht and the other one is in this tiny little rowing boat. We’re like, “We are in the same boat.” I think we are all swimming in the same ocean, but in some parts of the ocean, it’s really quiet and calm and in other parts it’s rough storm and you wouldn’t go in surfing for the life of it.
Sometimes you’re thrown into that ocean. We need to learn how to deal with that. When the wave comes, especially when it comes unexpectedly and it tumbles you under and you don’t know where up and down is, you hold your breath when you’re under. You come up, you take a deep breath. The take a deep breath is a really big one that I use all the time, almost on a daily basis when something feels overwhelming.
One deep breath, you’re back in the present moment and you do the same thing when you’re out in the ocean. You flip yourself on the back, which means just take a break and you breathe and you wait for the storm to pass. There are so many analogies with the ocean. Choose wisely whose boat you enter when somebody comes to rescue you. Sometimes you don’t have the choice. When you’re almost drowning and somebody throws your ring, you grab it no matter what boat that is.
When you’re in there, you can choose where you want to stay in that, whether it feels good, but it feels like you’re actually saved or just in a better situation than before and still not happy. You can choose to step into that luxury yacht like there are all these beautiful analogies or go on a party cruise or go on a grief cruise where you can heal. There are so many analogies, but know that every storm passes and while you’re in the storm, just don’t forget to breathe.
Marie, this has been an amazing conversation. I want to say thank you for being willing to have this discussion with the intentionality of encouraging our fellow journeyers on this widowhood experience. It may be someone that’s grieving the loss of a parent or a friend, a family member. Grief has a way of looking the same and different all at the same time. I want to say thank you. We covered a lot. Is there something we should have covered that you feel like we missed or some other advice you’d like to share?
I would like to share, I know it sounds like an ad break now, and I am shamelessly using that, I have put a book together about everything that we talked about, the grief language, the what to do, what not to do, what to say, how to support. There is a part in there that goes to the griever, a part in there that is from my children, from the children’s perspective. They have co-written that. I’m so proud.
There is a part that goes to the support person. There is a part with recommendations and references and helplines is the final part. That book is called My Person Died. What Now? I wanted it to come out before Christmas because I know that is a time where people will need it the most. If you are in the grief yourself, or if you want to support somebody, it is really the perfect gift you can give them for Christmas.
Where can they find that book? Where will it be available or how can they reach you?
The answer to all of that is my website, mariealessi.com. You find everything there. You can connect with me, you can find courses on there. You can find ways to work with me directly to buy my books or just to listen to my podcast. You find all of that on my website.
Your podcast, what do you talk about, and what would it look like to work with you?
So my podcast is called Unsilence Grief, and they’re conversations just like we are having right now. This is my official invitation for you to come and speak on my podcast.
I’m going to say yes in front of everybody.
I found it so important to give people a platform that have got a hopeful story to tell. I know that you do. We are having conversations just like you and I here now. It’s a half an hour podcast as well. I go live weekly with that. It’s not prerecorded. My podcast goes live. Unsilence Grief, weekly live interviews, conversations just like you and I. I do have my online courses that you can find on my website that is absolutely DIY, where you have video content that you can work through in your own time.
There is also an option to work with me one-on-one, but that is limited to five people at the time. I am working with four clients at the moment. One has just finished his round. There is another spot open, but by the time you read this, it might not be it. It is just a matter of like reach out to me and we can have a conversation about where you are at. I might point you in somebody else’s direction, I might give you book recommendations. I always say have a chat with me first and we’ll take it from there.
I am going to say something to the people that joined us on this conversation, and then I would like for you to close this out. Thank you for being in this conversation with us. I know that you may not be happy about what drew you to this conversation, but this is value add and I’m so grateful for you trusting us to hold a safe space for you to bring hope, healing and encouragement during what can be a difficult time, but learning how you can bring light into this for yourself.
I love this so much, and I really don’t have a lot to add. The only thing I want to say is trust your heart. It might not always make sense in particular to people outside of you, but as long as it makes sense to you and it feels good, follow that.
Still short of tools on how to deal with adversity, it affected Marie deeply when her father died of cancer only days after her 20th birthday. In her early twenties, she entered the world of advertising, with a 3 year break flying around the globe as a Flight Attendant, which allowed her to visit her beloved continent Australia a staggering 12 times between 1997 and 2004.
Back in advertising, climbing up the career ladder as an Account Director, Marie made her permanent move to her chosen home Sydney in July 2004. Only 10 months later she met her future husband, Knight in Shining Armor, Rob Alessi. After their dream wedding, barefoot on the beach in 2006, the couple welcomed two sons in 2008 and 2010. Their whole life was about Love and connection. Marie left the advertising industry late 2007 to devote her time to her young family. In 2011 she embarked onto a whole new chapter, and started her own Coaching Business, with a strong focus on personal growth, to support people in achieving their business goals. This is also where her fascination with mindset and transformation started. She learned and developed various tools and techniques, not knowing that these would transform her own life in rather unexpected, yet magical ways in years to come. All along training and growing her most valuable skill of trusting her intuition.
In 2018 Rob’s sudden passing changed the course of Marie’s life fiercely. Almost in slow motion she came to understand in the weeks and months following, that everything she had experienced in her life leading up to Rob’s passing, had prepared her for what was to come in the years ahead of her. She decided to write a book about her experience, which ranked in the top 100 bestseller list of Australia, and soon after turned it into a global movement. Marie published a further 2 books, co-authored 2 more, presented a TEDx talk, and was featured in renowned publications such as Channel 7, Channel 9, Mamamia, and Good Health magazine, just to name a few. Having helped about 5,000 people onto their healing journey, with the programs and retreats she had created, Marie closed the group on her husband’s 5th anniversary of passing to take a break in Europe with her young sons.
The same year Marie continued to build her skills to become a Keynote Speaker, sharing her message from stages, to dedicate more time to her family, while increasing the impact for those in need of healing.
Thank you for viewing this post. I am not a licensed therapist or professional life coach.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
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How To Bring Lightness Into Grief With Marie Alessi
Grief is quite challenging to deal with all year round, but it can be specifically tougher during the holiday season. Keynote speaker Marie Alessi talks about her mission to bring lightness into grief, not to make it completely go away, but instead make it much easier to handle. Reflecting on the sudden passing of her husband, she stresses the importance of embracing joy despite the sadness – regardless of what other people may think. Marie also offers practical advice on raising children after your partner passes away, responding to insensitive comments about grief, and finding your very own North Star amid your grieving journey.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.
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Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
How To Bring Lightness Into Grief With Marie Alessi
Our guest, Marie, has provided the number one answer to give to someone that is grieving. I’ve never heard it, but I’m going to be using it every day going forward. Let’s get into this conversation now.
Marie, welcome to the Widowhood.
Tina, nice to be here.
When you hear, “Welcome to the widowhood,” what’s the ticker tape in your mind?
It was very bizarre when you just said that it came unexpected. I’m like, “Is it something to want to be welcome to?” That’s the first thought that came up. Here we are in this club together.
Marie Alessi’s Journey Of Loss And Grief
It is, and I hear that phrase. It’s a club that no one wants to be in, do you think we think about this club in the onset of marriage? First of all, let me say this, thank you for being part of this special series, Voices of Widowhood: Healing Through the Holidays. We’re having this conversation with the intentionality that people during the holidays, grief hits you a different way. Our conversation is focused around that intent. I want everyone in our community to get to know you first.
Thank you. I don’t think it’s anything that you ever think of when you get married. However, my background is maybe slightly different because my mom became a widow when she was 43. My dad passed away when he was 46. I was only twenty. It was somewhat in the back of my mind, however, never in a way that I thought, “This could potentially happen to me.” I never thought of that.
I don’t think anybody ever does until it does. Oftentimes, our vows say, “Until death do us part,” or these words are there, “For richer or poorer, in sickness or health,” but when they actually show up and your life is transformed and you are advocate of grief, you bring lightness into grief, how do you do all those things for yourself and for others?
I think it comes back to what I just shared before that my dad died when I was really young. I had already a very intense shift happening in my life at the age of twenty, where everybody’s going about being young and happy and completely carefree. That carefree stopped for me the day my dad passed. I remember the first one and a half years, roughly. I had no idea how to handle my grief. It was debilitating. It numbed me.
It was just something that pulled the rug underneath my feet. Nobody teaches you how to deal with grief. Society’s expectation is when somebody dies, and especially for a widow, especially for a young widow, your life is over, basically. There’s this expectation that grief will last forever. There’s language like, “There’ll always be a hole in my heart.”
I don’t succumb to any of those beliefs. I don’t use language like that. The way I bring lightness into grief is by sharing different perspectives. I am so big on teaching and sharing about the allowing, allowing joy back in, allowing love back in. When you look at the before and after timeline, before somebody dies in your life, it is so normal. Nobody would ever question that.
There’s joy, there’s sadness, there’s happiness, there’s tears, there’s all sorts of emotions all over the place, especially for women before somebody dies. Afterwards, all of a sudden there’s grief. I’m like, “Not true.” It’s not the reality. The reality of it is that there’ll be smiles and happy tears or laughter even of joyful memories or new memories that you create. Guilt comes in because society teaches you that that’s not part of it, and that’s not true.
I’m going to share a very quick scenario that happened at portrays that so perfectly. One of the songs that I always sang to Rob was “Love is in the Air” because there was so much love between us. I would always sing and I sing when I’m happy. That’s just what I do. I would often sing that song to him. I remember I was standing in the kitchen one day after Rob died. I was cutting some vegetables, I was preparing dinner, and I started singing “Love is in the Air.”
All of a sudden, there was this guilt that came in. I remember vividly that quick train of thoughts that rushed through my head and I forced myself to continue singing. It wasn’t with the same enthusiasm and with the same, like as I usually do with all my heart, with all my body, with everything. I forced myself not in a negative way. I really encouraged myself to keep singing.
That was very pivotal for me because I thought in my head, “This is what Rob would want. This is what we promised to each other.” We’ll get to that promise probably in a minute in that talk. It was really something that was really important for me to continue that love and connection and the joy that we have created together. Differently, of course. I’ll not want to leave that behind.
Thank you for sharing that because I believe so many people struggle with having to choose in their mind, either have to choose to be happy or choose to be sad. In choosing to be sad, I am honoring my loved one. I’m honoring my grief. If I’m choosing to be happy, it equates that I’ve forgotten about them and I’ve moved on, not bored in my life. I’m not a good widow if you find me laughing. I’m not a good widow if you find me wearing a vibrant color or going out with friends.
How Marie Met His Late Husband
You can be both. You can be sad about your spouse not being here and you can be happy that your life exists and enjoying what you get to do in this world as long as your time exists. That is one of the biggest struggles. You mentioned about Robert. How did you guys meet and where are you having this conversation from right now?
I am in Sydney, Australia. I moved here in 2004. I always had this really strong calling to move to the other side of the world, like Sydney had my heart before I ever came here. When I was 25, I thought, “I’m going to go and check it out.” It took me another almost 7 years and 11 flights back and forth to finally officially make Sydney my home. Ten months after I moved here, I met Rob. Another ten months later, we were married. If anybody would’ve told me that, I would’ve said, “Are you crazy? There’s no way. If he’s Mr. Right, he’ll still be Mr. Right after 3 to 5 years. There’s no rush.”
When I met Rob, people often say this, “When you know, you know.” I was always like, “What do you mean by that? What does that even mean?” When I met Rob, I knew what it meant. When you know, you know and I’m like, “I know now.” It was such a whirlwind how it all unfolded. I met him in May. I realized I fell in love with him in June and in July, he started moving in.
In August, he met my friends. In October, he proposed and in March, we had our barefoot wedding. It was such a whirlwind. I can honestly say it was not one second of regret in the entire time I was with him. I’m really grateful. Hindsight is always 20/20 vision. I’m grateful that it all happened. I’m just super blessed. It was a fully set up double date, by the way.
We always like some good tea on the show, so we want to hear about the double date. Now I want to hear about this promise that you briefly mentioned.
Double date. I used to go to karaoke nights. One of my very close friends used to love singing. She was a really very enthusiastic karaoke fan. I would go with her. We would go every Thursday night. For those from Australia, some of you might know the Menzies Sports Bar in Sydney. They had their karaoke nights on every Thursday, and then they even doubled up and did Thursday and Friday.
We were regulars, we knew the DJ. We had so much fun there. It was just always a very casual and super fun night. I met this chick there, we got on really well. We had one of those chats, as you do between girls. “It would be nice to meet a nice man for a change.” She’s like, “I know a nice young man.” I’m like, “Yeah, that’s what they all say.” She started telling me about this guy. I looked at her and I was like, “He sounds too good to be true. Where’s the catch?” She’s like, “No catch.” I’m like, “Where does he live?” “At his parents’ place in Green Lake.” I’m like, “There’s the catch.”
“What do you think? He’s lived out of home for like five years with his girlfriend. After they broke up, he moved into the granny flat to help them build the house extension.” I’m like, “That is so adorable. That is so beautiful.” Yes, completely independent in the granny flat just to help them out. I thought, “That was so nice. I need to meet this guy.”
I met him. I have to say there wasn’t instant like fireworks and all of that like in my usual relationships that I had before. I always compare that. Before, I had relationship with lots of fireworks and lots of ashes. With Rob, there was this little flame that started burning brighter and brighter and never stopped becoming brighter for the entire time we were together. There was this ongoing, steady growth of love between us. That’s what I said. It took me six weeks to realize I was in love with him. Not like the usual, “I met this guy.”
Something different came from something different, I hear.
Absolutely. He said he knew from the second he saw me. That’s what he told me. I felt a bit of pressure because I was going through my working visa, getting my visa sorted. I had lots of stress at work. I just felt pressure from all sides. I’m like, “I really like you, but just don’t pressure me, basically.”
You didn’t put him in the friend zone? You kept him close?
I put him in the friend zone. My brain started ticking because he didn’t call me anymore.
You did put him in the friend zone.
For about ten days. Ten days after, we had this phone call and we caught up.
You missed him. You gave it a beat and then you realized, “I need some more time with Robert.”
“He doesn’t call me anymore. What have I done?” It ended up with flowers being sent to my office. It was not my birthday, it was something else. I can’t remember. Somehow, he sent me two dozens of red roses to my office with a vase, with chocolates, with a cart. The whole shebang and I thought, “This guy is a real gentleman. He really knows what he’s doing.”
We caught up and somehow along the lines, I realized I feel so much more for him than I thought. That night, I’m going to share that quickly as well, when we had dinner and I gave him that friend zone speech, I remember sitting over dinner, we had the best conversation ever. I looked at him and I thought, “I wish I could fall in love with this guy. He’s just so perfect.”
I didn’t have those sparks yet. I didn’t know that other way of developing love, like true love. That all happened. My wish was granted. I did fall in love with him and the rest is history. Beautiful barefoot beach wedding. Two boys. The house near the beach. Later, I started my own business, got out of corporate world.
We got married in 2006. In 2015, Rob came home late from work and he gave me a buzz on the way home. He said, “Babe, I’m going to be about two hours late. There was an accident on Heathcote Road.” Heathcote Road was all the way through a national park, there’s no side road. You have to go the way around. It was a huge detour, peak-hour traffic.
We learned later that night that there was a front-on collision with a truck. A young fireman off duty has lost his life in a front-on collision. His wife was waiting at home with their sixteen-month-old daughter. That really hit home for us because our boys were only a couple of years old. We ended up having the conversation. It was the most pivotal conversation in my entire life without knowing at the time.
The conversation was about, “What would you do if something was to happen to me?” For both of us. We looked at each other. We had a really long conversation. I’m still having goosebumps just thinking about it. It was such a beautiful, sad, confronting and super important conversation. It was very bonding to talk about these things. In a nutshell, the conversation ended in, “I would want you to create the happiest life possible for you and the boys.” That was the very sentence that echoed in my head when I had to share the news of their dad’s passing with our boys. I didn’t know how to do that in that very moment, but this promise became my North Star in my darkest hour.
How To Find Your Very Own North Star
That is a gift that you and I both share. What I would ask you, for the widow that is reading this conversation and she never got that gift, any recommendations on how to find peace in that or how to find her North Star that she so desperately needs and wants?
Yeah, I have a very simple solution for that. I understand I always use the word simple deliberately, because it’s not always easy. The simple solution for that, and I still use that despite having the promise, despite having had this conversation, when I get stuck, when I feel I need an answer, I need help, I need guidance, I don’t know how to decide this, I don’t know how to do this on my own, etc., I do the role reversal.
I put myself in Rob’s shoes and I look down on Marie and I tell her everything she needs to know because from his perspective, that’s what I believe, anyway. I honor and know that everybody’s got different spiritual beliefs. From my perspective, I know that Rob is in a state of pure love and all understanding and knowing. From that perspective, it is really such a beautiful role swap for me to put myself in his shoes where I’m coming from a space of pure love and talk to Marie about what I feel that she needs. It’s a full-on role swap. Everybody can do that. I’m going to give you a very fun story. Between widows, I can say that this was a fun story.
We have the dark humor thing going on.
I had one widow. She was like, “My husband wouldn’t want me to be happy. My husband wouldn’t want me to move on with somebody else.” She did that and I was like, “Alright, let’s swap it from a space of pure and unconditional love. What would you want for her?” I had such a beautiful relationship with Rob. For me, unconditional love and Rob is completely interchangeable. Always come from the space of love. What would love do? That has become my absolute mantra through the highest highs and lowest lows. What would love do? That’s the only thing you need.
Always come from the space of love during your highest highs and lowest lows. Share on XI love that for me because I had an amazing relationship with my husband. You and I, on this process of being in this space for people in grief, there are some people that their spouse’s passing was just the edge of a divorce that could have happened. There are some people that were in domestic violence, they were not in a healthy place. They don’t think that their spouse would have love for them. How do they reconcile that part of them and be able to give themself the grace to be able to move forward in life?
This is my spiritual belief. The most beautiful part is that as soon as they died, it was already reconciled. There’s nothing left to reconcile. They pass into pure and unconditional love. It’s done. There’s no space for reconciliation. There is no space for guilt, there’s no space for shame. It’s been solved for you. It’s the biggest gift.
I’m saying that with a huge disclaimer because when you’re not ready to receive that gift, it can feel prematurely for you to hear those words. They might not make sense, or they might even trigger a little bit of anger or resentment when I say those things. What I’m saying is, open your heart to the possibility of love. I’m not necessarily talking about intimate love or a new relationship, but I’m not excluding it. I’m talking love in general. Open your heart with a possibility of love. You’d be surprised from how many different angles and in what different forms and shapes love comes into your life after you have experienced something like that.
I will also put that on your closest circle. I don’t know how you went with that, Tina. I was very surprised both ways. With some people, closest circle, I thought they’d be there for me and they weren’t. Other people were coming out of the woodworks where I didn’t expect them at all. All of a sudden, they became my closest circle. Both was there.
My inner circle definitely changed. That’s why I’m saying open your heart to the possibility of love because that also comes in people that want to support you and be there for you. You need to learn to set boundaries, be clear on what you need and what you don’t need because people will want to help. Sometimes, that can feel very overwhelming when people just want to come in and just drop in quickly.
Don’t realize how vulnerable your personal space becomes in that time. For the people reading this, wanting to support, send a quick text up front or a quick call. Don’t just go there, knock on the door. It’s like, “I just wanted to,” if that times 100 a day or times 20 can be super overwhelming, even though it comes from a beautiful intention. Show up and offer simple solutions.
“I can come pa past today. I can cook for you this week. Do you want Tuesday or Thursday? I’ll cook for you on Thursday. Would you prefer fish or salad or pasta?” Just give them simple solutions. A or B. Don’t ask them, just let me know when. Just let me know what. You are not capable of making these decisions with your widow brain.
What To Say To A Grieving Person (And What You Must Never Say)
That part right there. Give the answer. We can hardly figure out what we did the last five minutes. I love, “Would you like fish or chicken? This day or that day?” You know them well enough to ask the question. Just let it be simple for them. Yes. You mentioned earlier about people not knowing what to say. Oftentimes, people lean in. These are the things people have said to me. Can we start with what are some things people should say?
Yeah, absolutely. One of my go-to lines because it is such a, how long is a piece of question? We never know what the situation’s like the person like, even if we know the person every minute of the day can be different. It’s really tricky because you never know how they receive it. My number one go-to is, “I never assume that this was the worst thing that ever happened to you.”
It might sound very controversial when I say that, but it’s so depends on your spiritual journey and where you are at. I had some spiritual epiphanies in my journey with Rob where I was like, “What a gift.” It sounds weird to say that, but Rob and I had a sole contract and this was all part of it. I recognized this soul contract a couple of months into his passing.
It was quite overwhelming. It took me a long time to process to accept it into wholeheartedly understand it. From that perspective now, how could I have said, “I’m sorry for your loss to somebody,” when I have this spiritual epiphany where I feel so overwhelmed with this gift that he has given me in his passing. My go-to is, “My heart goes out to you.” I feel it. I mean it when I say it because it’s literally just, “I’m opening my heart to yours.” That creates the space for whatever it needs to happen in that space. That’s all I do.
Let a grieving person know that your heart goes out to them. That creates a safe space for them. Share on XI mean it when I say it. I never use these words lightheartedly or just as a phrase. I feel it. I mean it when I say it, “My heart goes out to you.” That’s my number one go-to when I don’t know what else to say. I never revert to “My condolences.” Never. I’m never to, “I’m sorry for your loss,” because I don’t know the person and the situation and their spiritual contract enough to be sorry for them. I don’t want that. I even talked to my boys about it, and I said, “I don’t like that. I’m sorry. I don’t want people to say, ‘I’m sorry for your loss,’ to me.” It’s interesting.
I plan to use that because it’s such a tricky thing to know what to say to someone, but that is sincerely, “What is going on? My heart is going out to you in this situation.” I am going to make a statement and then I would like you to give alternative for people. “Your loved one’s in a better place.”
That feels like such a slap in the face to receive that. I absolutely loathe when somebody says that. I would rather have somebody say, “How do you feel right now? Do you want me to sit with you? Would you like to talk about him? Would you want to tell me about him? I’d love to hear about him.” There are so many things that you can open this conversation with, but how dare you say to me he’s in a better place?
Do you know that that comes up for me? This is a thing I want to pause you for a little bit because I know you wanted to do the alternatives, but this is such an important one. I really want to say something else about this. If I as the widow come to the understanding that my loved one is in a better place, that’s often when they were in a really long battle with cancer, with something terminal and they’ve been suffering. I come to the understanding he’s in a better place now. That is such a beautiful gift to come to this place. If somebody says it to me, it feels like a slap in the face because it’s not their gift to unwrap. It’s mine. They’re taking something really important away from me. You can’t do that. People don’t understand what they’re doing when they say that.
That is perfect because people need to have an alternative because when the person is grieving, your tongue is stuck. Inside, they may be feeling as you just express, but their ability to convey that in a rational manner is difficult. That is why I knew you had the language for that, because they’re going to hear that a lot during the holidays. They’re going to be able to create their own version of this. To also validate. You shouldn’t have to be okay with that. You’re perfectly fine to not be in a positive reception to that type of statement because oftentimes for women, we’re trying to be polite or be kind and inside we’re going, “What is wrong with you?” How about this one? “This is your third Christmas. You should be over this by now.”
It’s not a sickness that you get over. People’s expectation of how fast you are supposed to move through this is just so off. If you are happy too soon, it’s like, “She didn’t even grieve him properly.” If you are still unhappy, then it’s like, “You should be over this by now.” My go-to is you don’t understand or when people say, “I don’t understand why you’re not.” I’m like, “I’m glad you don’t. I’m really glad you don’t understand because it means that you haven’t experienced it yet.” For me, there’s always that, how do you draw a line really politely? You can even say that, “I do need to draw the line here because you’re talking about something you don’t understand.” You can really say that.
People’s expectations of how fast you are supposed to move through grief are just so off. Share on XYes, because you said earlier about the idea of not being able to speak to something you don’t understand. If I come to your place of work and told you how to do something that I had no clue about, it would be acceptable for you to say, “That’s not the standard that we use here. That’s not how we do this work.” How would someone else come and tell you in your lived experience how that’s supposed to be? Even if you’re another widow, who am I to dictate to you? If you’re not harming yourself, you’re not having some unhealthy coping skills and denial, it’s just hard to live in this world without your spouse.
I can tell you what I would like to say to them when they say that, but I would never say it out loud. It depends on a situation. If it’s bad enough and I can be cheeky enough, I would probably say, “How many husbands have you lost?” See what happens in that silence. I love it.
Why Women Are Better At Hiding Emotions
I was like, “That’s a different version of the same answer.” “For what space do you give me this advice? How many spouses have you lost?” That’ll shut it down. That’ll shut it down very quickly. Do you think women have a harder time conveying how they really feel?
They’ve got a better way of hiding it, I would say. Women have a better way of hiding emotions because we are so used to dealing with a billion things at a time. Women are the multitaskers. Men are the ones focused on one thing at a time. It’s from hunter and gathering. It’s just the way that our brains are wired. Women are so used to sitting around the fireplace, chitchatting, doing a billion things at the same time. Men hunt.
I know we are not in cave time anymore, but we’re still wired like that. As women, we always called the emotional species versus the men, but we are also quite good at masking our true emotions and being brave and showing up as brave. When I see a woman really brave, I know there’s a lot going on behind the scenes and I’ve learned to ask the right questions at the right time. I would not out a woman in public about things like that, but when it’s a one-on-one conversation, I can have the true heart-to-heart. “How are you really feeling?” Sometimes, just a simple question like that can unfold a lot. Just creating that space for her to come out.
Dealing With Small Children In Grief And The Holidays
It’s like we’re doing here in this conversation. We are creating a space for someone to read this discussion and know that it’s okay how they feel. Dealing with small children in grief and the holidays. Any suggestions or share your lived experience in that?
Yeah, I’d like to share my lived experience with that because Rob died in June. We had about half a year to prepare for all these first milestones to come without him. The first Christmas, New Year’s, both the boys birthdays are in January. Rob and I had actually planned a trip around the world for an entire year. We wanted to homeschool them. We started an online business that started to become very lucrative and we wanted to just do that for an entire year and then he died. I still had the entire itinerary. I thought, “I can’t do this on my own. I can’t possibly travel to South America with two boys on my own as a widow.” I was grieving, homeschooling. That’s no way I can do homeschooling and grieving on my own at the same time.
This is a pivotal moment again. I always look at what can I do? “What can’t I do or I can’t do this without him. I can’t do this without him,” it’s very debilitating. You’re digging a hole and you’re sinking deeper and deeper. I always look at what can I do? What can I do on my own? I remember standing in the travel agency and I was looking at this big world map, and I had a couple of things picked out already where I wanted to go with the boys. There was this one week where we had nothing planned. The first week of our trip had no destination yet because one destination was the Canary Islands. My godfather migrated to Canary Islands. I always wanted to go there. He is such a father figure for me.
I knew that would be such a safe space to land, literally. We had nine days there and he had a couple of holiday houses like, “I’ve got this one house. It’s empty for those nine days. You can have it.” I’m like, “Yes.” I had this one week extra, I’m like, “Where are we going to go?” I was standing at the travel agent with the big world map and I had my finger on the Canary Islands and I had my finger on Australia. I literally went, “What’s in the middle? We’re going to the Maldives.” We had a week in the Maldives to start our trip off after all that intense time of losing their dad, flying across the country to identify his body, arranging the funeral.
The first holy communion of my little one without his dad then going back to school, back and forth, staying home, writing my first book. There was all this stuff that happened in that very short timeframe and then we went on a trip away for two months. We traveled around the world. It was the best thing I could have ever done. I understand not everybody has got the means to travel, but if you can, change something about your routine, because celebrating the holidays the way you’ve always done it makes it, in my opinion, in my humble opinion, harder to deal with it. Completely, deliberately changing it. Even doing a weekend away. You don’t have to worry about anybody else. A lot of people go, “Be here, but I should be there and I should be with family.”
Don’t you crap on me. Just do what your heart desires. If you decide to be with family, do it. If you decide to be away and hide, do it. I know this opinion. “You can’t hide away from grief.” Yeah, you can. It’ll probably hide with you but you don’t have to be with the whole expectation of family and of the environment where you usually are or how’s she going to deal with that? All eyes on you, it’s so much pressure. If you feel like running away, do it. It’s fine. If you are allowed to run away from it. It’ll be waiting for you. Don’t worry.
You’re talking about skipping now. You’re not talking about running away from everything forever. You’re saying to give yourself space to be able to do that.
Yeah. I can promise you it is a lot easier to deal with that wave that is coming, sitting in your private pool, in an overwater bungalow in the Maldives, looking out onto the ocean, watching the fish go by than being at home where you feel his absence so much more. Now I should create a happy Christmas on my own for them. We even had the tooth fairy and the Santa conversation in that pool, and I thought, “What an amazing place to have that conversation.” At the same time, everything inside of me was like, “No, not this year. Please give me one more year where they believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.” Yeah, we had that conversation there and then, and it’s now a beautiful memory, not a painful one.
Those are words of hope. Those are words of encouragement. I love how you wrapped it down to no matter what your financial situation is. Maybe it’s going for a walk in the park versus where you would sit at home and cry, changing your scenery. One of the things that I find found very helpful, and I recommend to people, sometimes you may say, “I don’t want to live here anymore,” but you may not have the means to relocate.
How Grief Is Like Waves Of The Ocean
If you change the furniture around in the house, a can of paint, it changes the muscle memory of what you’re looking at and it allows you to see it from a different perspective, refreshing where you’re at and have a way of helping you manage this process. You said something about a wave. Can you go a little bit more into that wave and what that looks like and some suggestions on how to manage that?
I very often describe or compare grief with the ocean because sometimes you look out in the ocean, it looks all calm and quiet, and then you step in and all of a sudden, you have this undercurrent and you didn’t see it coming. It just sucks you in. You can literally feel like you are drowning. Sometimes, especially people living near the ocean, they would understand that you don’t fight a current in the ocean. You turn on your back and you breathe and you wait the current to wash you out on the other side.
There is a lot of similarities in the way we deal with grief and the way we deal with the ocean. That amazing quote, it so feeds into that comparison. People often say, “We are in the same boat,” and there’s actually a meme, an image to that. One is in this luxury yacht and the other one is in this tiny little rowing boat. We’re like, “We are in the same boat.” I think we are all swimming in the same ocean, but in some parts of the ocean, it’s really quiet and calm and in other parts it’s rough storm and you wouldn’t go in surfing for the life of it.
Sometimes you’re thrown into that ocean. We need to learn how to deal with that. When the wave comes, especially when it comes unexpectedly and it tumbles you under and you don’t know where up and down is, you hold your breath when you’re under. You come up, you take a deep breath. The take a deep breath is a really big one that I use all the time, almost on a daily basis when something feels overwhelming.
One deep breath, you’re back in the present moment and you do the same thing when you’re out in the ocean. You flip yourself on the back, which means just take a break and you breathe and you wait for the storm to pass. There are so many analogies with the ocean. Choose wisely whose boat you enter when somebody comes to rescue you. Sometimes you don’t have the choice. When you’re almost drowning and somebody throws your ring, you grab it no matter what boat that is.
When you’re in there, you can choose where you want to stay in that, whether it feels good, but it feels like you’re actually saved or just in a better situation than before and still not happy. You can choose to step into that luxury yacht like there are all these beautiful analogies or go on a party cruise or go on a grief cruise where you can heal. There are so many analogies, but know that every storm passes and while you’re in the storm, just don’t forget to breathe.
Every storm passes. While you are in it, do not forget to breathe. Share on XGet In Touch With Marie
Marie, this has been an amazing conversation. I want to say thank you for being willing to have this discussion with the intentionality of encouraging our fellow journeyers on this widowhood experience. It may be someone that’s grieving the loss of a parent or a friend, a family member. Grief has a way of looking the same and different all at the same time. I want to say thank you. We covered a lot. Is there something we should have covered that you feel like we missed or some other advice you’d like to share?
I would like to share, I know it sounds like an ad break now, and I am shamelessly using that, I have put a book together about everything that we talked about, the grief language, the what to do, what not to do, what to say, how to support. There is a part in there that goes to the griever, a part in there that is from my children, from the children’s perspective. They have co-written that. I’m so proud.
There is a part that goes to the support person. There is a part with recommendations and references and helplines is the final part. That book is called My Person Died. What Now? I wanted it to come out before Christmas because I know that is a time where people will need it the most. If you are in the grief yourself, or if you want to support somebody, it is really the perfect gift you can give them for Christmas.
Where can they find that book? Where will it be available or how can they reach you?
The answer to all of that is my website, mariealessi.com. You find everything there. You can connect with me, you can find courses on there. You can find ways to work with me directly to buy my books or just to listen to my podcast. You find all of that on my website.
Your podcast, what do you talk about, and what would it look like to work with you?
So my podcast is called Unsilence Grief, and they’re conversations just like we are having right now. This is my official invitation for you to come and speak on my podcast.
I’m going to say yes in front of everybody.
I found it so important to give people a platform that have got a hopeful story to tell. I know that you do. We are having conversations just like you and I here now. It’s a half an hour podcast as well. I go live weekly with that. It’s not prerecorded. My podcast goes live. Unsilence Grief, weekly live interviews, conversations just like you and I. I do have my online courses that you can find on my website that is absolutely DIY, where you have video content that you can work through in your own time.
There is also an option to work with me one-on-one, but that is limited to five people at the time. I am working with four clients at the moment. One has just finished his round. There is another spot open, but by the time you read this, it might not be it. It is just a matter of like reach out to me and we can have a conversation about where you are at. I might point you in somebody else’s direction, I might give you book recommendations. I always say have a chat with me first and we’ll take it from there.
I am going to say something to the people that joined us on this conversation, and then I would like for you to close this out. Thank you for being in this conversation with us. I know that you may not be happy about what drew you to this conversation, but this is value add and I’m so grateful for you trusting us to hold a safe space for you to bring hope, healing and encouragement during what can be a difficult time, but learning how you can bring light into this for yourself.
I love this so much, and I really don’t have a lot to add. The only thing I want to say is trust your heart. It might not always make sense in particular to people outside of you, but as long as it makes sense to you and it feels good, follow that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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About Marie Alessi
Back in advertising, climbing up the career ladder as an Account Director, Marie made her permanent move to her chosen home Sydney in July 2004. Only 10 months later she met her future husband, Knight in Shining Armor, Rob Alessi. After their dream wedding, barefoot on the beach in 2006, the couple welcomed two sons in 2008 and 2010. Their whole life was about Love and connection. Marie left the advertising industry late 2007 to devote her time to her young family. In 2011 she embarked onto a whole new chapter, and started her own Coaching Business, with a strong focus on personal growth, to support people in achieving their business goals. This is also where her fascination with mindset and transformation started. She learned and developed various tools and techniques, not knowing that these would transform her own life in rather unexpected, yet magical ways in years to come. All along training and growing her most valuable skill of trusting her intuition.
In 2018 Rob’s sudden passing changed the course of Marie’s life fiercely. Almost in slow motion she came to understand in the weeks and months following, that everything she had experienced in her life leading up to Rob’s passing, had prepared her for what was to come in the years ahead of her. She decided to write a book about her experience, which ranked in the top 100 bestseller list of Australia, and soon after turned it into a global movement. Marie published a further 2 books, co-authored 2 more, presented a TEDx talk, and was featured in renowned publications such as Channel 7, Channel 9, Mamamia, and Good Health magazine, just to name a few. Having helped about 5,000 people onto their healing journey, with the programs and retreats she had created, Marie closed the group on her husband’s 5th anniversary of passing to take a break in Europe with her young sons.
The same year Marie continued to build her skills to become a Keynote Speaker, sharing her message from stages, to dedicate more time to her family, while increasing the impact for those in need of healing.
Thank you for viewing this post. I am not a licensed therapist or professional life coach.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/suicide/suicide-prevention-hotlines-resources-worldwide