Losing a spouse is a profound emotional journey, but for many, it also triggers an unexpected and overwhelming secondary challenge: managing the household finances. Suddenly thrust into the role of “Chief Financial Officer” while navigating the fog of grief, many widows and widowers find themselves paralyzed by financial anxiety.
Today, we sit down with Daniel Kopp—a financial planner and widower who turned his own lived experience into a mission to help others. We discuss the often-taboo intersection of death and money, how to triage your immediate financial responsibilities during early grief, and why finding a trusted, fiduciary advisor can be the key to reclaiming your confidence. Whether you are currently in the thick of the “dark days” or looking to build a secure legacy for your future, join us as we explore how to turn financial pain into purpose and start building a stable path forward.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.
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Money, Grief & Widowhood: Daniel Kopp On Financial Anxiety After Losing A Spouse
Introduction And The Mission Of The Non-Profit
Widowhood, what happens when you meet a young widower who has a financial background? How could that change your journey? How could his understanding and his lived experience help you? That’s what we’re going to find out in this conversation with Daniel. Let’s get into the discussion.
Daniel, welcome to the Widowhood.
I’m so glad to be here, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to share.
Welcome to the Widowhood, if we were to see the ticker tape of the translation in your head, what would that look like?
It certainly brings back the memories of my personal journey as a caregiver to my wife, Sarah. We ultimately were married for about 5 years, the last 2 of which I was her full-time caregiver, trying to balance that with my active-duty career. Ultimately, she came home to hospice. Before that, we lived in hospitals for the prior six months. She died in August 2017. It brings back what it was like as a caregiver and as a young widower. I was 31 when she died. In this work, bringing up many other people’s stories, I have gotten a chance to work with and help other younger widow spouses on their journey, too.
You said all that in less than two minutes. That was a whole conversation right there.
There is a lot more. That’s the short version.
I wasn’t expecting you to do it all right there. Let’s roll this back a little bit. What was your wife’s name again?
Sarah.
She passed in what year?
2017.
Our spouse passed away the same year.
I didn’t even realize that until now.
That’s a lot that you said in one sentence, so I know you’ve learned to say that. I don’t want to undermine the cost for you to be able to make that statement, and how much of your life has been involved in that timeline. Sometimes, when we’re able to say something without being emotionally distraught at the moment we’re saying it, people underestimate how it impacts us. I don’t want to roll past that. When you think of your life then, as you sit here in this conversation, what does that look like to you now?
Time helps. Time doesn’t necessarily heal, but it helps. I remember at one point, probably early on, maybe about 6 to 12 months into the grief journey. I encountered an image. I’ll try to describe it here. Maybe some of the readers have already seen it. In those early dark days of grief, it’s this giant mass that feels overwhelming. If your life is a circle, the mass of grief fills almost every area. Maybe you’re a tiny little bit at the top of the circle where there’s no grief. Otherwise, it’s so overwhelming.
Time helps. It doesn’t necessarily heal, but it helps. Share on XI certainly felt the brain fog, confusion, social isolation, and awkwardness of people not knowing what to say. Especially in that season of life. I didn’t know anyone else who’d ever been widowed at such a young age. There were friendships pulling back and everything that goes along with that. There’s the logistical piece. How do you deal with accounts closing? It’s like, “What do I do with this paperwork? How do I take care of the phone lines?” All the logistics of that piece. It felt like it was never going to end in some ways.
With the benefit of time and hindsight, I see that the grief is still there. The widower or widow’s journey continues. At the same time, the rest of my life has grown more. If the circle was small before relative to the size of the grief, the grief is still there, in the same size, but the rest of my life, in many ways, has grown around it. It is still sorrowful and heavy, but it’s not quite so immediately painful. I can talk about it in a way that’s not overwhelming. I can share. It’s easier to reflect in that way.
If you were to speak to yourself the day after Sarah passed and you got to maintain all of your knowledge and all of your understanding. What would you have told Daniel that day based on what you know now many years later?
I’ve talked a lot about the spiritual side of the journey. This is a refining fire. It’s a sanctifying experience. As a result of going through those sorrows, you’re going to be able to experience deeper joys and higher highs. At the same time, you’re feeling, walking alongside, empathizing, delving into those low lows and those deep, dark days, and using it as a way to help and minister to other people. I had no idea of all the conversations and opportunities that I was going to take to learn from that pain and turn it into purpose, if you will. I assumed, “This is the way my life is. Maybe I’ll muddle through,” but much less taking what I’d learned and using it to help others.
Someone reading that early on, and they’ve heard pain in the purpose or “I’m going to make something good out of it,” is like, “This is not pleasant.” At what point over the many years of traveling did that shift to become what it is now for you?
It was at least a couple of years before that ever started coming. I’m trying to remember. It was maybe year 2, 3, or 4, somewhere in there. The community started to grow around me, or rather, I got plugged into communities that were there and got to talk and connect with other people who had been widowed at similar stages. I call it the language that no one wants to speak, but you translate easily. It’s the label that nobody expects of a widow, widower, and things like that. There’s that lived experience common knowledge. You look over, and you know.
Some things don’t even have to be said. I got to hear other people’s stories, similar to how you’ve shared so many great stories out here, and see people a little bit further ahead. If you’re sitting here and reading, and you’re like, “Nine years ahead. That feels far,” it would probably feel far. It certainly was in those early days for me. There was no way that I was going to relate as easily to someone 9 years ahead, but it was easier to relate to somebody 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years ahead.
That next one step, or what could be happening down the road, was a little glimmer of hope of, “They’ve made it.” Pain and purpose, or whatever the catchy phrase. It sounds good in a soundbite, but that’s because I’ve told this story a few times. There were no catchy soundbites. There was no thinking about that kind of stuff early on. It was an evolution of seeing myself in other people’s stories.
Thank you. It sounds like your journey to continue living after Sarah’s transition turned into something else. You were trying to survive your wife no longer being here. When you talk about the community building around you, what did that look like?
Transitioning Into A Financial Planning Career
In many cases, it was online communities. Finding other young men or women in a similar stage of life was difficult and challenging. It was almost impossible to find people in person. I did connect in a few conferences and things like that for people in the widowed space. It was when I started working in the profession. At the same time that I was getting out of the Air Force in the 2017, 2018, and 2019 timeframe, I ultimately became a financial planner and launched my own firm.
I never set out to use my lived experience as a way to connect with people, but it started happening organically. I started working with a lot of clients who were widows, and then I was like, “Now I can see a reason to take this and help people.” I also went back and got some additional training and education at Kansas State University in their financial therapy program.
It was very helpful for me in understanding some of the grief elements of financial anxiety that often come along when someone is thrust into the role of household Chief Financial Officer, that CFO role. Most couples delegate those roles. Suddenly, with the loss of a spouse, you’re having to do everything. That, coupled with some of the academic research that I started looking at, I said, “This is a way to help and serve.” It was an evolutionary process over time.
Thank you. You mentioned being in the Air Force. I know our readers are going, “What are those certificates?” I’ll let you explain the items behind you and what they represent on the first level there.
I have some of my Air Force medals and the Air Medal for some of the campaigns and things that I participated in, and one of my other trophies. I got some of my degrees. These are some little mementos. I have some other ones, like a tail flash and a flag of where I flew and stuff like that. These are ways to remember.
The little figurines for those who are interested, too. I know we talked about them during the pre-interview conversation.
These are my mini-LEGO figurines for my Star Wars stuff. A little Star Wars nerd over here.
Thank you. The blending of your grief journey and finances puts you in a very unique role. I know from myself and other people that I’ve spoken with that people feel very vulnerable. It’s an opportunity to feel like people try to take advantage of them. What have you found in dealing with people? Are they guarded? Are they feeling that way? What do those conversations look like?
It’s a very common feeling, and rightly so. You’re already so raw and feeling vulnerable. I mentioned my own personal experience of friendships drawing away. There’s an evolution in relationships, oftentimes, not of your own doing. Death is an awkward subject. There’s that taboo, in many cases, in our country as well. Our cultures, family of origin, money stories, and upbringings. All these things start to swirl together.
You add in a little dose of death and a little dose of money. Maybe there’s estate planning or taxes. All these things can get quite complicated already. I see it all the time because there’s also the element of brain fog. We’ve referenced a little bit of that. Life itself becomes so difficult and challenging. Our nervous systems, our mental strength, and our fortitude are spiritually and emotionally tested and stretched to the limit.
We add a whole host of administrivia. Maybe that’s probate. Maybe that’s settling all the beneficiary accounts. It’s a stack of mountains of to-dos a mile long. If you don’t feel overwhelmed, that’d be the rare exception. I have never encountered that personally. Much of the academic research would suggest that that’s almost impossible unless you truly were managing everything ahead of time. Even then, it’s still difficult because you have grief to deal with on top of it.
Inheriting The Role Of Household CFO
For that person who has inherited these chief financial officer duties, they were not the money person in the house. It was the person who passed. They have never paid the electric bill. All those things were handled. The duties in the household were divided, and the other person took that load. Is there a first step? Is there a first place that a person could start?
They don’t know where the passwords are. They just knew that everything was being done. They loved this person. They are still grappling with the idea that they are no longer on this side of eternity. They’ve got to make these phone calls. They’ve got to repeat this statement. They’ve got to do all these things. When they are at their lowest, some people may have children pulling at their coattails, needing things, and some people may have no children at all, but there’s this weight of all the things that they’ve got to start doing. Is there a first step?
There is, and this is where support can help. One of the things that academic research has shown, and this is what we do with a lot of our clients, is a triage of the list. There are a thousand things to be done, or it can feel like that at times. How do we prioritize them into the now, the soon, and the later buckets? Some stuff has to be done relatively now. We’ve got to fill out some forms. We’ve got to deal with the funeral. Maybe there’s a probate that needs to get started. Work with an attorney. Start to organize where the documents are.
Some decisions can be postponed a little bit. If they can, how do you work through that? If you’re a checklist person, this is a great thing. Don’t try to rely on your memory. Write everything down. Ideally, maybe you can have some friends, a family member, or a close trusted confidant come alongside and help you with some of this and start to organize one little bit at a time. Every small positive step that you take generates its own psychological moment, like the whole dopamine hit when you check off that thing on the to-do list.
I encounter this all the time with my incredibly smart, very talented, successful, and professional women, whether that’s primarily in the home or in the workforce. They encounter themselves in this financial situation, and they’re dealing with what ultimately turns out to be financial anxiety. It’s not just grief where it’s all mingled together, but it is, “I’m worried about how things are going to get paid. My money story from my past is integrating into this journey.”
Many of the mental health counselors and grief therapists are helping you work through the grief side of things but, oftentimes, they may not have the language or the skillset to help you articulate for yourself. A lot of what you’re feeling is financial anxiety, the lack of confidence that comes with things. This is where we try to do empowerment, which is all about education and the knowledge that goes along with it.
You’re an incredibly smart, capable, and talented person. You will be able to learn this.” I tell some of my clients, “What was it like when you started riding a bike for the first time or did any hard thing in your life? It was probably difficult at first, but with a little bit of practice, a little bit of encouragement, and a little bit of support, over time, you got better.”
We shouldn’t be having so much expectation of ourselves. Suddenly, when you’re thrust into this role in the grief journey, which is everything we’ve talked about so far, and at the same time, you have to master this checklist that is a mile long and deal with all the financial stuff, it’s going to be hard. If you start small and checklist it now, soon, and later, little by little, you’re going to make more progress. In a year, two, or three from now, you’re going to be in a much better place.
A couple of things I want to circle back to. Explain your money story.
A money story is a phrase when we’re talking about what money was like growing up in your family of origin. Some academic research suggests that even by the age of seven, your money personality or money story is, in many ways, hardwired, even before you have ever handled money a lot. Maybe certainly before you earned it. It may be for household chores or things like that.
Was money a source of conflict? Did it create tension? Was it a scarce resource? Was it something to not be talked about, that taboo subject idea? This is the air that you breathe, the water that you swim in, or whatever kind of analogy that you want to use there. Most people are not even aware of this until they meet someone different. Oftentimes, that’s your relationship, a marriage, or a spouse. You’re like, “You think that about that?” Oftentimes, that’s the first thing of, “We have very different upbringings.”
There are four primary money scripts that have been documented by some research with doctors, Brad and Ted Klontz, and Rick Kahler, who look at this. They wrote a fascinating book called The Financial Wisdom of Ebenezer Scrooge, which looks at the classic A Christmas Carol. Bob Cratchit and Ebenezer Scrooge illustrate some of these principles. It’s an older book. It’s been out for a while. It’s one of the ones that I’ve loved to give to clients as a gift in the past to help them understand that. If you’ve never heard of it, don’t be surprised. It’s a relatively newer, fresher concept in the world of finances.
When you say trust for finding the person to help you with this journey, why is it important to find someone you trust?
The Importance Of Relationship Capital And Trust
That’s a relationship capital that can help you move forward at your own pace. Whether that’s a friend, a family member, a trusted professional, a tax planner, a financial advisor, a financial planner, or something like that, when you get the trust that’s built up, that goes beyond giving advice. That’s about a relationship.
Some things like that can only be felt and experienced. If you’re dealing with financial anxiety, trying to figure out what’s next, unsure of what to do, or worried about being taken advantage of. Those are problems that I would argue math doesn’t solve. That’s the confidence that comes from knowing that somebody has your best interests at heart. I’d also argue that’s a great place to think about the fiduciary standard. One that exists in some elements of this profession where they’re legally, morally, and ethically required to act in your best interest as a client.
That’s another way that you can boost that level of trust. Some people in this profession only operate under a lower legal standard or suitability standard. In which case, they don’t have to give you what’s in your best interest. It’s a major distinction there, at least one of the things that comes to mind when you ask about trust.
I want to frame the reality that you are operating in the state of Florida. Some of the information you’re giving may only be in relation to Florida. People need to find out specifically how it works in their state and be certain of that. When you talk about some people who work at a lower level of trust, are there certifications, validations, or letters to look behind someone’s name to understand this as a person?
Some people going through grief may feel like they don’t have anyone that they can trust. The person walking along this process is going to become very aware of your financial position and what is available. It may not be the thing that you want to share with someone you trust as a friend. You’re looking for a professional who’s going to give you some guidance.
This is where it’s going to be unique to your situation and what you need. Are you willing to work with somebody who’s meeting you in person? Are you interested or able to work with someone who has a virtual practice and works with clients all over the US, as I do? There are a couple of things to think about. For the Certified Financial Planner designations, the CFP. Their marketing language is the gold standard because they do attach a fiduciary standard to financial planning relationships.
Asking if the professional that you’re working with has a CFP is a helpful indicator. I also chose to run my firm the way it’s called a Registered Investment Advisor, an RIA. All RIAs in the United States operate under a fiduciary standard to their clients. My particular method is called fee-only as well. That means I only charge fees that the client pays. There are never any commissions or any kind of kickbacks. It helps to reduce some of the conflicts of interest.
If you start with that CFP and RIA level, that’s going to get you 60%, 70%, or 80% of the way there. There’s also a style element, too. Can you connect? Can you relate to this person? There are different levels of engagement. How many services are you looking for? That’s why I’d recommend interviewing several people to get a flavor, compare, and contrast.
Can you provide details on what fiduciary means, to make sure they understand?
It’s a big, fancy word that gets thrown out a lot. What it ultimately means is, for the person giving you the advice, are they held to a legal standard that has liability attached to it? When I work with clients, if I give them bad advice that’s not in their best interest, they have legal standing to be able to come back, sue me, and win.
As opposed to somebody who’s operating under the suitability standard, it’s much easier for them, as the professional, to give bad advice. By that, I mean they sell a product that wasn’t ultimately the most effective, or maybe the lowest fee, or the most appropriate for that situation. For the client to come back and sue the person under that lesser suitability standard, it’s very difficult to win, almost impossible compared to the standard of the fiduciary, under which you’re going to have those people in the RIA model operating.
Thank you. I also want to circle back to make sure that people understand the difference in something you said. You mentioned two different ways in which a person could be paid for the services rendered. One could be a flat fee, and one could be a commission. Can you elaborate on the difference and why a person would particularly choose one or the other for their best interest?
With the commission-based model, there’s nothing inherently wrong with it. That’s the way many segments of our economy operate. For instance, when you go to buy a vehicle, you’re working with a salesman, whether that’s a used or a new car. You’re under no illusions when you walk into that dealership or auto shop that they’re going to try to sell you something that may or may not be suitable for you. You’re not having any delusions about them working in your best interest.
There is an inherent conflict of interest that exists there. That same kind of conflict of interest can exist in segments of financial services. You want to buy a product? Great. You go and find it, buy it, and that commission gets paid. The challenge comes when you have a financial advice-giver who’s telling you, the client, to go do X, Y, and Z because it’s in your best interest.
There are many extremely competent, ethical, wonderful professionals in this field who, despite earning commissions, are still operating in the client’s best interest from a legal, ethical, and moral standpoint. However, it does create an issue where you, as the client, particularly dealing with brain fog and all that stuff, might not understand that fully.
It’s difficult for me as a person working in the industry who knows the terminology and who knows these relationships. It was that much more difficult, which is why I personally have gone down the road of understanding in that compensation model where, if you, as a client, are paying a fee, it’s transparent. It’s easier to understand rather than being obscured and not knowing how the leverage works behind the scenes and what the implications are.
Thank you for explaining that. In this show, granted, a lot of the readers are widows or widowers, but it may be the child of someone who inherited money because their parents passed. It could be someone who’s dealing with, “I’ve never even had a will. I hear these words. I’m too young. I don’t want to start doing all those different things.” Is there a thing of being too young before you start planning financially? What would you say to that?
It’s never too late to plan. In fact, one of the best ways to start planning is today. What’s the old saying? If you want an oak tree that was planted ten years ago, the next best time is today. I butchered that horribly, but you know what I’m saying, right?
I got you.
Do people in your life depend on you? That is the first question. Are there other people who need you? We on this side of widowhood probably know that better than most, so we can be a message-giver of helping, like, “Learn from the lessons that I’ve gone through on what a good plan can look like ahead of time.” You referenced several of them throughout this conversation, like password access. You may delegate roles and responsibilities, but do you have an awareness of where accounts are? Do you have a central place where everything funnels together?
Some of my married clients come and hire me and specifically say they want to work together so that they have a point of contact who knows where things are and who can step in early on. That’s whether that’s you doing it with a professional or you doing it in your relationship so that those important people know where the documents are. We don’t have to go on the digital treasure hunt to find all the accounts, all the logins, and everything that goes on there.
Use a password manager. 1Password, LastPass, or BitLocker. Get something like that. I cannot stress that enough, especially in this day and age of AI, as hackers are going to get harder to beat and things like that. That way, you can have strong, unique passwords across all your different logins. You don’t have to remember them because they’re stored securely. You can give someone else access to that in an emergency contact situation.
The other thing that comes up here a lot is that this terminology may be new, challenging, and different, but I guarantee you in every one of your lives, there have been things that have been new, challenging, and different that you’ve tackled before. One little bit, back to that now, soon, and later checklist. You can do it, too, one little bit at a time.
What about the person who had read this conversation, and they’re like, “When a person passes, I’ll call them and tell them who I am. They’ll give me the password, and I’ll get access to everything.”
That’s not the way it works. Even in cases where you are the named beneficiary, there are formal procedures in place. Institutions like banks, custodians, and investment companies out there have to have strong procedures in place to protect themselves and their clients from fraud. It’s not as straightforward and simple as that, particularly even when you’re talking about things like shutting down social media accounts or having to deal with access to utilities. There’s a lot more logistics that can go into it than you might otherwise think.
Thank you for sharing that. I have a question. Take what you will with it. A person has a parent who has passed. The parent has no remaining spouse, but they have a lot of credit card debt. Does that child need to take on that debt for that parent and pay that? What are their options with that?
This is where you’re going to get very state-specific based on the procedures in the state where your parent lived. Some states have very specific ones. You can consult a legal authority for legal advice on it. Generally speaking, no. Credit card debt is unsecured debt. Debt generally does not require payment. However, these credit card companies can come and, many times, make claims against the estate. There’s a procedure, many times, through the probate process, for that to happen.
Your parent leaving unpaid credit cards, generally speaking, does not mean that you should go out and try to pay them. Oftentimes, sending them a death certificate or a copy of a death certificate is sufficient to get them to drop it entirely versus moving on. Some of them may go through the process, but that’s very unique to the amount and specifics of it. Let’s contrast that with a secured debt. That would be like a vehicle loan or a mortgage on a house.
Those are tied to a specific asset. You may inherit a house or a vehicle. Those debts do not suddenly go away. Those need to be satisfied. If the vehicle’s underwater, maybe the best option is to let the loan company come, repossess the vehicle, and take it away. Whereas if you want to keep it, that’s maybe you looking at refinancing it or paying it off. That’s similar to a mortgage in a scenario like that. It is knowing the types of debt, whether it is secured or unsecured debt, like credit cards.
In all the conversations you’ve had, whether it is sharing your grief story with your wife or the financial story, what are the things that you feel like are missed that people don’t talk about?
We referenced it earlier, but I’ll emphasize it again. It is the shame that can often come from feeling like you should have it all together or feeling frustrated or overwhelmed because it’s not a common language. Roth IRA, life insurance, estate planning, probate, or will are challenging terminologies. Since it’s new or different on top of everything else, it can bring up feelings of shame. Especially if that’s something that’s interacting with your money story, money journey, or money script from growing up.
Be patient with yourself. This is a journey. You’re going to get there eventually, especially if you have the support of trusted friends, colleagues, and professionals along the way. If you feel shame or overwhelmed with financial anxiety, that’s typical. That’s to be expected, so don’t feel alone if you’re experiencing that.
Be patient with yourself. This is a journey—you will get there, especially with the support of trusted friends, colleagues, and professionals. Share on XWhen you see yourself as a widower, what are some things that you feel other widowers are not given permission, and they need to know about?
There are so many interesting gender differences that exist in the space of grief. The stats bear it out when looking at the stats of remarriage by men versus women and/or the community. As I sought out a community early on, it was far more dominated by women than men. There were so many more women who were open to talking about and sharing their experiences.
The stereotype often holds true that men suppress their feelings or don’t engage in talking about them. Thankfully, I’d had some prior experiences with mental health practitioners and dealing with the Military chaplains, and the support of my church family to learn to lean in a little bit to the community. That helped me tremendously as a widower in the journey. More than fifty, sixty, or seventy clients at this point in time have gone through grief.
Only three were men, widowers, who wanted to reach out and talk about finances or anything like that. It’s anecdotal experience, mine only, but academic research has shown similar results. Men are not often as good about asking for help for whatever reason. If you are a widower who’s reading this, if you felt that, you’re not alone in that, too. I can tell you from personal experience and from working and seeing so many of those other people that when you do ask for help, the journey gets that much easier.
Thank you for saying that because it’s undervalued how help can relieve a lot of pressure when you are underneath so much water. I’d like to circle back to a part of the conversation that we didn’t do much justice to, which is the weight of being the caregiver for your wife.
The Challenges Of The Caregiving Journey
That was the hardest part of this whole thing, to be honest. It was the most isolating, the most unrelenting day after day, week after week, and month after month, and bearing what I could not fix. I wanted to try to help, heal, and fix her by taking her to so many doctors, medical appointments, and everything that went along with that.
Honestly, the time when I was probably in my most depressed state was in those dark days. It also felt like I had to do it all alone. It wasn’t until later on that so much support showed up. When Sarah was in hospice, and after she died, a lot of people started to volunteer to help. The caregiving journey, honestly, was even more challenging for me than the grief journey.
In hindsight, I had what I would describe as anticipatory grief. Even before I knew that she was going to die, because we still held out hope for so long during that caregiving period that things would turn around, I was still grieving all of the other losses. We didn’t go out and do adventures. We stopped traveling. Our circle of life, in some way, shrank. My career was a part of that, too. I had to give up career aspirations that I had for the Military. Life was incompatible with what I needed to do to manage both, so I withdrew.
I got off the fast track and focused on the home front, which I never ever regret. At the same time, all of those preemptive anticipatory losses were accumulating where I was isolated. I didn’t have a community. I had withdrawn. I was putting up a front or a facade to try to tell people that everything was fine when, in fact, it wasn’t. It took that last period of hospice and, ultimately, Sarah’s death for me to realize that I can’t do this on my own. The support that came with the community made such a difference afterward.
The community is watching someone who is a caregiver. They’re putting on that front and saying, “I’m okay.” Any advice on how they can insert themselves in or make themselves available and try to help?
I can think of some very specific people who showed up in those dark days when I may have said, “We’re fine. I don’t need anything,” but they showed up anyway. One day, someone came and said, “I know you need your lawn cut, so I’m going to do it.” Here I was. I didn’t have the extra time to do it. At the same time, they came and did it. The next thing I knew, my grass was taken care of. Someone took care of other errands. They showed up and did stuff without asking.
Many people were like, “What do you need?” In the overwhelm, in the grief, or where I was at in both before and after. I don’t know. I can’t think of anything at the moment. They knew my grass needed to be cut. They knew I needed to run some errands. They knew I needed extra support, so they showed up and did it without asking permission. That was amazing and so helpful.
It is. Someone to take your trash out. The thing that you have seems very basic, but to have those things done, there’s so much love, support, and care that you feel. It makes you realize that you are not alone in this very difficult situation. You mentioned your faith. How did your faith go in this process? Was there a struggle? Was it always shining? What did that look like for you?
It never went away, but certainly, in those dark, depressed days of the caregiving journey, especially in that last year or so, it was very dim. I never doubted God’s sovereignty or even that He loved us, but it felt so distant. He felt so far away that at the time, I couldn’t feel it. I was so inwardly focused on where I was. In those last few weeks and months of that hospice period and then the outpouring of the community support.
Especially as Sarah and I faced that together, not knowing what was yet to come, something changed in there. It was like a spark was rekindled that had grown dim. In that first year or two, especially after she was gone, it was probably one of the deepest, richest, and most satisfying. I had extra time and extra ability to focus, and I poured it into reading God’s Word, studying Scripture, and leaning into that prayer. It’s what I referred to earlier.
I had the ability to experience the deepest highs and lowest lows more intensely, see a richness and a beauty in the scriptures as Christ is the man of sorrows acquainted with grief, and go through that. I went up and down through that, but I’m grateful for it. That pain into purpose thing is because it made me better because of the sanctifying influence that the whole grief journey has had on me.
Thank you for sharing that. Oftentimes, people feel like, “I will always feel this way. I will always feel this low. Nothing will ever be different for me.” For the person that is struggling and they’re reading this conversation, and they’re in that low, and they’re thinking, “I don’t want anything to do with God. He disappointed me. My life did not turn out the way I expected,” and you bumped into this person in the grocery store and they started pouring this out, what would you share with them?
I would try to hold space with them first, take the heaviness alongside, sorrow and mourn with them, weep with those who weep, and not try to leap in with anything at the beginning. I would try to grieve with those who grieve, and then see where they are with what they need beyond that. That might be a steady, encouraging presence of showing up, sitting in the room with them.
Before this experience, I found I was too quick to reach rather than to pause. Even in my own experience that I share, it was not that I didn’t know the truth. I did. It just felt so far away. It’s like the experience of Job’s friends. They showed up. They were commiserating with him for a while, and then they got tired of that and started berating him a little bit. Let’s be the ones who sit there longer, listen more, and maybe even talk less, especially in those early, dark, hard days.
That is solid advice to people who are supporting grievers. You mentioned earlier that often, you may say the wrong thing. Silence is golden.
The other thing they often say is, “I’m so sorry.” I know people mean well, but being on the other side, and I’m sure you’ve seen this, too, you hear it over and over again that it numbs you. It loses its effect. I like to replace sorry with sad, like, “I’m so sad with you.”
Not for you, but with you.
That’s one of the phrases I like to say, or, “I am mourning with you in your sorrow.” I am reaching down with them. Words have an impact, especially when they’re real, empathetic, and driven by trying to care. If you’re one of those people who are trying to figure out what to say, try that. Say, “I’m so sad with you. I’m mourning with you in your sorrow.” Rather than the classic, “I’m so sorry.” What am I supposed to say back to, “I’m so sorry.” Is it, “I’m sorrier?” I don’t know. It’s not opening up for a conversation many times. Try that. It might work better.
Words have an impact, especially when they are real, empathetic, and rooted in care. Share on XThat is good. You and I are both nine years into this journey. Years ago, I received some documentation that I needed to resolve about my husband’s passing. I thought I was done with everything. I was like, “Stuff still comes up.” People feel like you’re nine years out, you’re having a life, and you’re doing things. Does grief still become something that is activated in your life after everything that you’ve gone through?
Yes, 100%. Those are the triggers. They’re sometimes, out of the blue, too, even at this stage. It could be the smell of the perfume that she used to wear. Smells can be so powerful. When I smell hazelnut coffee, I think of my grandmother because that’s what she had. The olfactory senses have a specific brain pathway that can be extremely powerful and triggering. That happened not long ago.
In my work with grievers and people. Oftentimes, their story will touch on elements of the mind. In general, there is that heaviness that comes with meeting people where they’re at in their grief. It reminds me of some of the Air Force training that I did back in the day about the different pillars of strength, which are emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental.
For me, it is knowing ahead of time if I’m going to be working in this space. In talking to people who are grieving, what can I do ahead of time so I can go in well-rested and not stressed about other things, having eaten a good lunch? It is the basics of life so that you can lean in and meet people where they’re at in a different way, but at the same time, also find space. If I’m working with a grieving client, I make sure to give myself a little space on the backend in case it is particularly intense.
I don’t have to rush five minutes from that meeting straight into the next one without the opportunity to step back and process. These are some of the works that therapists have done for a very long time, which is self of the therapist. We’re trying to apply it in the financial advice world as a planner, which is an understanding of yourself. You have to do your self-work first. There are various phrases that describe it. You can’t take clients further than you’ve been willing to go yourself. It’s that same idea.
Take the time to have introspection and the time to think, process, grieve, and mourn. You can’t pour from an empty cup at the same time. Praise God. The Holy Spirit gives us everything that we need to be able to do that. Understand where you’re at and what your specific triggers are, and then build in those buffers or strengthen those pillars that we talked about so that you can help people without getting so dragged down every time that you can’t bounce back.
The two things you deal with are the things that people try to steer away from. People don’t like to talk about money, or they don’t like to talk about death. You are finding a way to put both of those together to be able to serve people. I know we’ve talked about quite a bit. Have we covered all the things that you thought that you wanted to have in this discussion?
Integrating Time, Talent, And Treasure As Stewards
Let’s focus a little bit on how we integrate life and use the resources, such as time, talent, and treasure. For those of us on this side of eternity, we have the ability to be wise stewards. That’s why I named my company Wise Stewardship to talk about this. Money is a tool. It can be used for good. It can be used for good or evil. Oftentimes, we put too much emphasis on the dollar part of it and less on the hopes, fears, dreams, values, and goals that we can use to help build the kingdom, honor our late spouse, and take care of our loved ones.
Praise God. Grief is an amazing clarifying filter. On this side of the loss of Sarah, it helped me understand what is important and what is not. I set aside some of those annoyances that might frustrate me so much beforehand to think more about the long view, the eternal view, and the work that I get a chance to do with clients. I’m remarried. For my wife, Anna, our boys, our church, our neighborhood, and our community, being able to invest in them is the driving factor.
That then allows us to reorder everything else behind the scenes, like how much we save, where we invest, how we spend, and how we give. When you approach from that standpoint, everything else becomes clear. What’s the saying? When the vision is clear, decisions are easy. The same thing can apply in this realm of money. Often, we live in a very materialistic culture. Often, it can be easy to pick up the same habits. It’s always more and never enough, especially in the realm of money and finances.
I’m grateful. From my experience personally, and then working with clients, grief is a clarifying fact. It helps challenge some of the pre-built assumptions about what matters and what doesn’t. When you can take those valuable lessons learned, apply them to the realm of finances in your own life, and help to teach and train other people in those, too, that can set legacies that are on very dramatically different pathways of what’s important and how you use money as a tool for that rather than money being in the driver’s seat.
I’m so glad I asked you that question to circle back to that. I can relate to that wholeheartedly, the clarifying part of that. I wish it had come a different way, but it did. I would agree with that. If someone wants to work with you, how do they contact you?
The best way would be to go to my website, WiseStewardshipFP.com. FP stands for Financial Planning. I have a lot of resources and things to learn about it. We work with clients all over the US, so a virtual relationship. Generally, you need to be interested in using technology. Those are things like Zoom, Google Drive, and things like that.
If that’s not something that you’re comfortable with, it might not be the best fit, but we’d love to help. Most of our clients are in their thirties, forties, and fifties, dealing with kids somewhere in the picture and stepping into that household CFO role for the first time. If that sounds like you, we’d love to be of help. If we’re not the right fit, we can help refer you to someone who could be.
Thank you. I try to give my guests the opportunity to be the host. Any questions that you may have for me?
I love what you’ve built here. You built a community that is focused on providing service. When you think about some of the topics that we’ve talked about, like that money story integration and using money as a lens or a filter on this side of grief. What stands out to you in all the conversations that you’ve had with guests on this show? What have you seen where people use their time, talent, and treasure to make a different impact on this side of grief?
That’s a good question. In fact, not one I’ve ever been asked. I will leverage the work that we do, how different people have come alongside us, and what that would look like. I would have a conversation with someone, and they may have thought that this was just about having an interview. They find out, “You have a program called Children of Widowhood Secret Santa.” It’s where we work to support children who have lost one or both parents and get them Christmas gifts in December.
Even though it would be great if everyone were fiscally responsible or had a plan, you know the statistics better than I do. The majority of people are not financially prepared for the passing of a spouse. If it’s the spouse who was the money provider, then it’s even more of a devastating thing. I had two widows come to me and say, “We’ve identified some widows in the community who are going to struggle this year for Christmas. How can we help them?”
Our board allowed us to have a program. People came alongside us, such as organizations and individuals, and made sure that those children had Christmas gifts. We were able to create anonymous Amazon Wishlists posted on our website, and people went and purchased them. It started the first year with seven families. In 2025, we had eleven families. We had 29 children. They were allowed to pick five gifts each. People were purchasing gifts for them. It went to their home. No one knew who they were. They kept their privacy.
Another thing that we have done is that we have a gala coming up on May 16th, 2026, called Hope Grows Here. We are creating an opportunity for people to come alongside us to create an education fund. It goes back to the idea that if people are not prepared economically, it doesn’t mean the hurt doesn’t exist. Someone may need to go back and obtain a livable wage, which requires them to have more education or pick up a trade. Maybe the children were in college or are being educated, and the ability to do that has ceased. People come alongside us and go, “I see the need there.”
I’m a breast cancer survivor. I see a lot of stuff for breast cancer awareness. I see a lot of stuff for veterans. You and I both served in the Military. There are very low numbers supporting widows and widowers. When you see an opportunity, you are able to say, “That is a community that relates to me. I want to be able to serve that community.” We have a memorial garden that we’re starting in the area that has a median income of about $65,000.
Why is that important? If I’m making $65,000 annually, I probably don’t have time to take off from work and sit in my emotions. I’m having to get up and go to work as I’m actively grieving because there are things that I need to pay for, and I’m struggling in this economic world. People come alongside us to be able to create that memorial garden where people can come to that space and then also potentially have coffee with a mental health professional.
That may be the only time that’s free for someone to speak with them. There are different people who come alongside us, such as mental health professionals or coaches, who allow us to work pro bono with people to send to them. Everyone doesn’t have healthcare, but they are struggling mentally. Those are ways that I’ve seen after conversations that I’ve had with people, which is for them to come along with the services that we provide and be able to help other people.
That is so special. What a way that people have taken their experiences in this grief journey and leaned in to make a difference.
Thank you. Any other questions?
No, I’m so grateful to get a chance to have a conversation. I hope it was a help to the audience.
I think so. I would like to allow you the opportunity to close out this conversation with any final thoughts or maybe things we didn’t cover for our audience.
Final Thoughts On The Grief Journey And Paying It Forward
We’ve referenced a lot of the ideas of the grief journey. It’s that roller coaster of emotions. There are high highs and low lows. There are opportunities to take it and grow. Wherever you’re at, whether you’re early or later in this journey, know that you’re not alone. There are people out there who have walked a road similar to yours.
Even though every grief journey is unique, you can hopefully gain some wisdom and inspiration. When the time is right, at the right place, the right way, with the right people. You have a chance to take what you’ve learned to be a help, to be a blessing, and to be an encouragement to others. I’m so thankful that many people have done that for me along the way and continue to do that for me. I hope this is the way that I have the chance to pay it back and pay it forward.
Thank you so much for this conversation.
Thank you.
Important Links
- Daniel Kopp on LinkedIn
- Wise Stewardship Financial Planning
- 1Password
- LastPass
- The Financial Wisdom of Ebenezer Scrooge
- A Christmas Carol
- Children of Widowhood Secret Santa
- Hope Grows Here
About Daniel Kopp
Daniel Kopp, MA, MSFP, CFP ®, MQFP ®, is a fee-only, fiduciary financial planner, financial therapist, and founder of Wise Stewardship Financial Planning, where he helps young widows and widowers as well as military members organize their financial lives by aligning their money with their deeply-held values. He leverages his personal experiences as a widower to Sarah and an Air Force veteran of nine years to offer a deeper level of engagement and connection with his clients. In addition to offering comprehensive, holistic financial planning services, he specializes in working with younger widows dealing with financial anxiety through the lens of financial therapy. This combined approach blends therapeutic and financial competencies to help people reach their financial goals by thoughtfully addressing financial challenges, while at the same time, attending to the emotional, psychological, behavioral, and relational hurdles that are intertwined.
Daniel’s education includes his undergraduate as a BS in Economics from Purdue University with highest distinction, an MA from American Military University, a Graduate Certificate in Financial Therapy, and an MS in Advanced Financial Planning from Kansas State University (KSU). He has been published in the Journal of Financial Therapy for his research on working with widows dealing with money avoidance.
Daniel lives with his wife Anna and sons in Sarasota, Florida, where they love to explore new places, try interesting cuisines, play board games, and serve in their local church.
Social Media Handles and Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmkopp/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wisestewardshipfinancialplan
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WiseStewardshipFP
Widow Life and Money Podcast: https://widowlifemoney.libsyn.com/
