Grief touches every life, but in the midst of loss there are often unexpected glimmers of hope–rivers in the desert. In this heartfelt conversation, author Katherine E. ST. joins Tina Fornwald to share the journey behind her book Rivers in the Desert: Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times. Together, they explore the many faces of grief — from the loss of loved ones to broken relationships, health challenges, and financial struggles — and the ways faith, forgiveness, and community can bring light into the darkest seasons. With deeply personal stories, poetry, and even the healing power of music, Katherine invites listeners to see that even in life’s deserts, rivers of hope still flow.

I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.  

Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Psychology Today Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World.

—

Watch the episode here

 

Listen to the podcast here

 

Rivers In The Desert: Healing Hearts And Broken Places With Katherine E. ST.

Hello, Widowhood. Our guest is younger than normal, but wisdom is large. We’re going to talk about something being too much and being a lot. The revelation was profound. In the conversation about how to support the grieving, she asked some good questions. This conversation about Katherine’s book, Rivers in the Desert: Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times, is something that’s going to benefit you, encourage you in your moment of desert, and bring the glimmer of hope that is the spark and the start to know that life will have meaning. Let’s get into this conversation.

 

 

Welcome To Widowhood: Beyond The Obvious Grief

Hello, Katherine. Welcome to the Widowhood.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

When you hear, “Welcome to the Widowhood,” what are you thinking?

Initially, I think, “I’m not a widow. I don’t know what that is.” Not that I don’t know what it is, but I haven’t had that experience in life. You always explain to me that it’s beyond being a widow. It’s that everybody experiences grief. People can relate to that feeling. When I hear that, I hear welcome to the community that you’re building and encouraging those who have gone through situations of grief. Thank you.

Rivers In The Desert: A Young Author’s Journey Through Impossible Times

You’re welcome. You nailed it. It is a conversation of grief and loss. With my husband’s time in this world ending, I haven’t felt like he’s lost. That is a profound level of grief, but in that we experienced a lot of pain. There are similarities in that process as far as how we manage pain. We’re going to talk about the obvious. You wrote a book, Rivers in the Desert: Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times. Tell us. What are we talking about, impossible times at 28? I need the community to understand. “I’m going to listen to the 28-year-old in the book. What hard times does she have?” Break it down.

There are so many different things and aspects. I know we’ll get into some of them inside the book. I may not have experienced what some people would call obvious grief, but there have been so many different situations and times in my life where I have felt lost and my world falling apart. There are family relationships and situations not working out, where you would think that they would be working out, friendship relationships breaking, or even my relationship with myself in believing who I am, and then finding out, “No, that’s not who you are. This is not what you’re supposed to be doing. You’re not as good as what you thought you were.”

There are all kinds of realizations smacking you left and right. Impossible times came when it was all of those different aspects happening at one time. It is feeling, “What is my life right now? I want to be doing what I should be doing, but I’m in this place. This person is leaving me. I thought this person would stand by me.” It’s one thing to grieve when somebody has left the world. It’s another thing feeling left when they are still here. The painful part of it is that we are here. We could be doing well together, but there are things in the way. Now I feel alone and even feel at times that God has left. It is all kinds of grief, turmoil, and frustrations that I was dealing with, growing pains, I guess you could say at some points, and just humanity in life.

Thank you. That was a very good overview. I’m going to warn you or prepare you. I let you give a topical overview. It’s called real talk. We want some real situations, some real tea. You don’t have to use the person’s name. The people leaving you, I want more of that situation. I want to hear about what that loneliness is. When you write a book talking about glimmers of hope, that hope is further illuminated when the reader understands what your impossible times were, because now they can grasp that. Another level of transparency is going to be required. I’m preparing you now. You can change the names to protect the innocence, but the description, so you can start thinking about what that’s going to look like.

That’s hard.

It is, but that’s why I’m preparing you. The dedication is, “For every soul that has ever found themselves in an impossible season.” What came to mind for you when you thought about impossible seasons and your readers who would take this book in those very difficult moments?

It is friendships that I thought would last forever, and did not. I see a mother or father who has suffered a miscarriage. I see someone who was engaged to be married, something happened, and it fell apart. I see the widows who have lost their spouse. I see parents who have lost their children and children who have lost their parents. I see a financial crisis where you are looking like, “How am I going to continue existing in this life?” I see health struggles, challenges that feel like in the natural, in the world, in all probability, this is not looking good. Those are some impossible seasons that I see my readers coming from.

Thank you. We wish they would happen individually, but they often happen simultaneously or in very close proximity to each other. When we are hopeless in a situation, we don’t see a way out. We are struggling to encourage ourselves to stay motivated and to see that my situation may not remain the way that it is forever. I can’t see what the possibility of tomorrow or next week looks like. That coming at the beginning of this book is helpful for the reader to say, “Hope may be found for me in these pages.” It is not a heavy read. Sometimes, when you are hopeless, you can barely read one word at a time. To have something easy to digest may be even more encouraging. Was that intentional, your development of this?

It’s challenging because I wrote this after I had gone through something. I was able to articulate where I maybe wouldn’t have been able to, going through it. There are some who, in the moment, dealt with something and then, in the next few minutes, wrote the poem. Those ones are like, “She’s in it.” I want it to be, “I relate to this.” Where people are at different times would impact how they feel about what they’re reading. If they are currently in a situation where they are feeling betrayed, they might read that poem and might have to put it down.

I know some people have read through it, and then some people are taking it page by page. It depends on the experience of the reader and where they are when they choose to pick it up. It’s meant to be encouraging, but also relatable. Yes, I don’t want to say it might have been a little bit detached, because I wasn’t, for the most part. I had gone through it. I’m revisiting in order to write about it.

From Diary To Book: The Inspiration To Share A Journey Of Healing

I see value sometimes in pieces of something being written in my journal at the moment. When a book is being written for the reader, I don’t think it is always best for that rawness opportunity to reflect because of the way I may be feeling at that moment. Maybe, “I’m mad. This is hard,” but that’s a diary entry. A book for a reader is me writing for them in mind, with the idea of what they will receive from this. What for you didn’t keep this as a diary entry, but turned this into a book? What was the inspiration behind that?

I knew that the Lord wanted me to put something out to help people who have been where I have been. Yes, there are times of, “This is my situation, and this is how I feel about it.” There are some things that are raw, but as you’re saying, not as raw as the real. There are actually some poems that I took out because I was still dealing with that situation or processing. I said, “This is actually not edifying. For this to be cemented in time, I want to at least have time to process that this is what I’m putting out.”

 

 

There are some things that did not make it for that purpose. I want it to be, “Yes, I know what you’re feeling. There’s hope.” That was definitely in my process of choosing the poems and organizing them towards the end. It is more faith. You see more scriptures. You see more of God in building up the reader. I had that in mind when I was putting this together. The first few are the person and the situation, and the person and other people. It then moves into a series of poems that are the person and themselves, and then the person and God.

The process that I hope people would take in going through this is, “Yes, I’m fighting. I’m angry at this person. I’m hurt and all this.” You start to look inside. You’re like, “What is it that I’m doing, what is it that I need to change, or where am I broken and I need healing?” After looking towards yourself, you realize that the only place that you can look towards is the Lord to heal, to restore, and to bring you out of that hard place to give you deeper meaning for the trials that you’ve been through.

God In The Desert: A Conversation For The Doubting Heart

Thank you. For the person that’s reading this conversation, and they’re not a fan of God right now, their loved one has died, or maybe they’ve had a lot of relationships or interaction with religion, and not a relationship. They read that you talk about God. Their eyes are starting to roll. They’re starting to go, “I don’t know if this is for me.” What would you say to them?

Honestly, I would say give it a chance. There are some poems in here that actually talk about that relationship, conversations with God, and what that looks like. God, why is this happening? Why do I feel like you’ve left me alone? There’s still value in this book because it’s about humanity. The desert is that we are flawed beings. We are selfish at times. Other people do things to us. We experience hurt and pain.

Regardless of your belief, every human being experiences hurt, frustration, betrayal, or anger. Anything that can happen in this life can happen to you. You can relate to it. The hopeful thing is that Jesus is our hope. I would hope even through the poems, even though yes, they have that angle that people would be able to relate to the humanity of it, and still connect to, I actually do feel this way. Hopefully, maybe the Lord can meet them in that place, even.

Regardless of your belief, every human being experiences frustration, betrayal, anger—anything that can happen in this life can happen to you, and you can relate to it. Share on X

Thank you. I know I picked out some poems that we’re going to cover, but what is the one that you mentioned about the struggle in humanity? What page number is that on? I’m going to put that in the sequence of what I’ve already identified. I wanted you to share with us.

It’s A Conversation with God, the first one. This is page 49.

A Guiding Light In Life’s Challenges

I’m going to put that in my sequence. I want to read the acknowledgments. “I want to thank my uncle, Rev. Dr. Moses Asamoah, Jr., for helping me realize gifts and talents that I was unaware of, for believing in me when I wanted to give up, and for reminding me that life can be a lot, but with God, nothing is ever too much. This book is my version of Thank God for Goliath. You showed me how. Thank you, Uncle Se.” You’re smiling. Who was this person? Why were they worthy of this dedication? Learning to believe in yourself is another thing. Being in an impossible situation can make you doubt yourself and not feel like you’re worthy. Talk about that.

I have to give it up to my uncle. He was there. When I was growing up, my dad actually had to go overseas to work. I was almost eleven when he left. I was turning seventeen when he came back. I had a good chunk of my life where my dad was not there, not because he didn’t want to be. He was outside working to make a living for our family. I have five brothers. There are six of us, and then my mom. My dad had to, at that time, go out of the country to work. He didn’t grow up in America.

He grew up in Ghana. Sometimes, the credentials don’t transfer over. He got certifications that he could get. The money was there at the time. That was in the Middle East. He was working as a contractor for the military. The money was good. It was a way for him to take care of his family. Unfortunately, in his absence, this is difficult for a girl. I would say it is difficult for my brothers, too, in different ways. It was difficult for me because I am such a daddy’s girl.

I didn’t even get to realize that until I was older. You’ll actually see some of that in one of the poems, too, seeing God as father. I was like, “I don’t understand that relationship.” I had the opportunity to experience that relationship in Pastor Moses, Rev. Dr. Moses Asamoah, Jr., whom I call Uncle Se. His middle name is Selorm. It’s a short version. He was always there. Nothing to discredit my dad. He was doing what he had to do to get us to where he thought we would be in a good place, being able to go to school, go to college, and do different things. I love and respect him. I honor him for that.

The reality was that he wasn’t there. If Uncle Se were not there, I don’t know where I would be. He’s the one who took me on my first date to show me what a guy should do for me. I was maybe fifteen. He was the one who encouraged me to know God for myself and to seek after what the Lord would have for me. He would tell me, “You’re beautiful. You’re smart. You can do it. I’m here for you.” He’s always there. Even through the struggles that we’ll talk about in the book, he was there. He is the one who encouraged me.

I think he doesn’t remember saying this, but every time I’d say, “Uncle Se, this is too much. I don’t want to deal with this. It’s too much,” he would say, “It’s a lot.” I’m like, “Why is he saying this? It is too much,” but too much implies that it’s bad. Maybe it’s bad in the moment, but altogether, it’s a lot. You can move through it and get past it. That is Uncle Se. I wanted to give him this acknowledgment for my first book because he’s a writer. He’s an author. He always encouraged me to pursue God.

I’ve always written. Some people are surprised that I put out a book, but I’ve always been a writer. I just haven’t shared anything, maybe things that were too raw or maybe not as polished. When I was younger, I would write my emotions. I wrote some poems, but I’ve always been a writer. He is the one who encourages me to pursue everything that God has given us to do. However many gifts, talents, and skills you have, use them all.

I felt the Lord pushing me to share my story. I’m integrated. I’m to myself. I don’t share everything with everybody. This is a big jump for me to put out different things and parts of my life that are not as glamorous, and not that I want to only show the good things. It’s hard for me to pull out and to unveil myself to say, “This is what I’ve been through.” I felt the need to do it. Pastor Moses encouraged me through it.

Rivers In The Desert: Believing For The Seemingly Impossible

That is beautiful. It sounds as if you’re paying for what was placed inside of you in this book to other people. Let’s start with the poem on page number three, Rivers in the Desert. Since this is your work, I would ask you to read it instead of me not doing my best. You have the passion and the feelings behind this.

No problem. “Rivers in the Desert. Rivers in the desert? I dare not ask if it is possible. The God who parted the sea, raised the dead, and had over 5,000 fed with fish and bread ought not to be questioned about what is possible. Instead, I wonder if I’m doing my part to believe and declare in faith what I heard the Lord say. What’s my part if not to keep the word, speak the word, and eat the word until my declaration becomes the seed from which the Lord would cause the word to bear fruit in my life that is sweet? Sweet like lemonade on a hot summer day. Sweet like hot chocolate on a cold winter night. Sweet like manna that came every day, like rain in a drought, like rivers in the desert.”

Tell us about this one.

This poem is about impossible things.

You know we need more detail.

The truth is that I’m still believing in the impossible. I want it to be so that people can see the hope of the impossible. It’s hard to share while it seems like a testimony in progress.

I still believe in the impossible, so people can see the hope in the impossibility. Share on X

You want more? I understand the concept of not saying something prematurely. I understand the concept of I’m telling people to be encouraged, but I haven’t arrived at the place I’m telling them to be encouraged at. Sometimes, I need to be encouraged as we’re walking on this journey together in the desert. It doesn’t always require you to have succeeded. It’s saying to still stay hopeful as we go through the process.

You’re right.

It is one of the little ones. It doesn’t have to be the one on the big top, but we’re going to need more.

There’s no little one.

It’s only one thing?

When I wrote this poem, it was about the seeming impossibility of being married. That is what Rivers in the Desert is about. I can speak candidly about this. Looking at what is available and what is out here right now, it is rough for a Black woman who is not compromising what I feel like I’m supposed to do in this life to be with someone. I don’t want to just be with someone. I want to be with someone who is going to walk alongside me towards something that is bigger than ourselves.

It is being a person of faith toward the purpose that I am supposed to do and he’s supposed to do, and for us to do what our family should do together. This is me hoping and believing that God has something in store for me. If He can do the impossible of parting the sea and feeding over 5,000 with a little lunch, He can do the impossible of connecting me with somebody who would be able to walk with me throughout this life, even in the seemingly impossible sea of people that we have in the world.

Thank you for opening up and being transparent.

No problem.

You’re probably sweating down your back. You’re like, “No problem,” but deep down inside, you’re like, “I can’t believe she made me say this.” You wrote a book about being in the desert. If you were to read this, you know I’m a widow. The person reading is a widower. Their spouse has died, and they want to love again. They want to hope for what may seem impossible. This now becomes relevant to them. Somebody could have been a 28-year-old widow because their spouse died in an accident in the military. They could be a 50-year-old widow. My husband died of a heart attack.

Is love still possible for me? It’s hot garbage out here. When you say being a woman, what I hear is somebody that got their own. I don’t need to have somebody to take care of me. I can pay my own bills by the grace of God and do whatever. I don’t need someone to exist, but I would want someone to have a partner in life. I feel like, to some extent, I have found that impossible. This leverages a conversation. I did find somebody of the same faith, same caliber, willing to walk, and I am not a young chicken. These things are real-life experiences in the heart.

Forgive Yourself: Navigating The Emotional Impact Of Loss

Thank you for being willing to share because the word impossible is very topical until I hear something goes, “I can relate to that struggle and why this could encourage me.” It’s not just the tea. It’s the relatability of it. I’m not going to give away all of the book, but I picked out some things that would be helpful, especially after you describe the process or the flow of the book, the external struggles that we have with people, the internal reckoning, and then coming to peace with that with your Creator. Page 21, Forgive Yourself.

“Forgive Yourself. A movie, a song, a book, a city, a color, things that take you back to that one time when you lost it, lost control, lost your bearings, lost yourself. This resulted in words, actions, behaviors that weren’t you. I mean, it was you, but it wasn’t. When you think back, it hurts so much that you have to stop yourself, distract yourself from what was done, what was said. You can’t seem to let it go.

You have to forgive yourself. You did the best that you could do with what you had, with what you were facing, with what you were fighting. You did the best that you could do under the circumstances. You did your best at the time. Maybe it wasn’t your all-time high. Nobody sees the internal struggles, only what you didn’t do, what you did or didn’t do, and what you did or didn’t say. That’s not fair to you. You did your best. Forgive yourself.”

You have to forgive yourself. You did the best you could with what you had, with what you were facing, with what you were fighting. Share on X

When I hear this poem for my community, I think about the emotional and mental impact of loss, the death of a child, a parent, your loved one, or your spouse. We are not operating at the high vibration that we are accustomed to. We have experienced traumatic situations. It is the person who shows up on the days, the months, that year or two, or what have you, after your spouse passes, your loved one. This is a lot that’s necessary for yourself.

It’s a lot to say, “I got left with a two-person life by one person leaving this world. How do I go back into my daughter’s room? How do I go out to take my son to school when my daughter is no longer here? Who do I call when my mom, whom I called every day on my way home from work, will no longer answer that phone? I’m mad thinking about leaving work.” What does forgiveness look like for you in this regard?

It’s a series. The first one is I forgive you, I forgive myself, and then forgive yourself. I’m writing this as someone who has had to do it and has to do it. I’m also writing it for whoever is reading this, thinking about things that they have done, because maybe they read I forgive myself and they are having a hard time forgiving themselves for the feeling that they had when they were betrayed. I’ll say that is a good part of my pain through this book. It might sound trivial to some, but when you grow up as the only girl, and your mom is constantly working and has to take care of the house, she’s not playing with you. We’re not going to do our nails. We’re not doing the girly things except for cooking and cleaning. Make sure everybody is good in the house.

You grow up alone. You’re hoping for that one friend that you can relate to, or you can grow up with. I’ve had a series of “Maybe this person. No, not that person. Maybe this person. They don’t consider me a friend,” constantly throughout my life. I’ve had this struggle of wanting companionship. Growing up, I got to a point where I was like, “It’s fine. I actually don’t need friends. Whatever, I don’t need this. I can’t have it, so I don’t need it.” I got to a point where I had it, and it seemed good. There’s this closeness and this dependability.

At the time, there were frustrations with my family. I’m now struggling with the word family. This person is a sibling, a parent, or a cousin. They’re supposed to be here with me through this, but they’re actually the ones that are frustrating me. I’m starting to not be myself because the relationship that I thought would stand beside me is now gone. That could be in reality, physically, emotionally, mentally, or spiritually not there.

You start to feel alone. In that aloneness, I found a friend and was connected. Somewhere in my mind, the friendship became familial. It’s like, “This is my person. This is my home.” According to circumstances, they had to go and were not as available or committed. I felt like, “What is happening?” I lost it. I was so frustrated. I did not know what to do with myself. I’m feeling physically unwell.

My chest is hurting. Being around them is causing me physical stress. I cannot do it because the thing that I held so dear is gone. I was not myself. People saw me at that time and would think, “Is she good? Why is she acting like this?” It’s like, “You don’t understand the gravity of my pain. You’re not going to understand why I’m acting like this.” That’s where this series came from. Forgive Yourself is me having the grace for myself that other people did not have for me to be real in my reaction, in my response, and in my emotion.

It is to say, “You weren’t yourself at that time. Understand you weren’t. That’s the facts. The facts were that you were wild. The reality is that there was a reason that was not just you being any kind of way because you wanted to be. You were in pain. You were stressed out. You were frustrated. You were at a loss for words, at a loss for what you’re going through. Yes, maybe you lost control. You lost your bearings. You didn’t know what to do. Forgive yourself because it’s not you. You were going through a time.” This is me telling myself, and I’m hoping the reader will tell themselves, to have grace for themselves when they are going through the unimaginable in this life.

People say, “I’m going to forgive myself.” They feel like they’re checking a block. Is there any benefit, any empowerment, or less stress? What did that do for you, or is it doing for you as you’re learning to forgive yourself? Maybe something could happen that you need to forgive yourself, versus what happened a few years ago?

It’s a constant thing for me. I grew up a perfectionist. Things have to be right. I got to do things right. I’m a leader. My younger siblings look up to me. I have my mom counting on me. My dad is counting on me. I have to do things right. It was very difficult for me as I left college and turned into my young adult years in 2021 to not feel like I had to do everything perfectly. It’s okay. I tell people I’m a recovering perfectionist because I would beat myself down so badly.

It’s acknowledging that the behavior, the response, whatever it is, probably wasn’t right, but also you’re human. We’re actually going to make mistakes in this life. It’s okay to do that. It is to have grace and say, “Probably, that was not it.” It is having a time to address myself to say, “No, but you’re human. It’s okay. Let’s do better next time.” That is the process of forgiving myself. The things that I’m labeling or writing in the beginning, a movie, a song, a book, are things that, in real life, would remind me of how I was at that time when I was not myself.

You're human; it's okay. Let's do better next time. Share on X

The guilt starts coming. The condemnation starts coming in. Let’s not get to that place. “No, I forgive myself. It wasn’t right. I shouldn’t have done that, but I forgive myself.” We might be thinking that other people are feeling this way about us. Maybe they have forgotten and moved on, but for us, it is still playing. This is a constant. When that reminds you of that thing that you did, “I did it, but it was wrong. I forgive myself.” It’s a constant reframing of your mind rather than, “Yes, I forgive myself.” No, it’s work.

A Conversation With God: Finding Presence Amidst Pain

That is real. We are now at the poem you mentioned in the beginning on page 49, A Conversation with God.

On the left side, you’ll see God. On the right side are the emotions of what the person is feeling, almost like an iPhone conversation. You can be God if you want to, for the context of reading this poem.

The first one is “I’m here?”

Yes.

“I’m here.”

“It doesn’t feel like it, especially when my heart is ripping out of my chest and is aching so badly that I think something is wrong with me. I want it to stop.”

“I’m here.”

“What’s the point of any of this? What is the point of life if we’re constantly hurting? Will the pain ever stop? It feels constant, never-ending.”

“I’m here.”

“You say you’re here, also constant and never-ending. I guess I could try focusing on you. As I focus on you, the pain begins to dull. Dare I say heal? Finally, instead of questioning or doubting, I’m accepting and aware. I’m grateful that I’m here.”

What does it mean for you and for someone reading? What does it mean that God is here?

It means that He’s there. It seems so simple, but He’s never going to leave. We read I forgive myself in the times when you are outside of yourself. Maybe you feel out of your mind. You’re frustrated. You’re in this place. Things feel like a storm and turmoil. People are leaving because it’s too much for them to handle. They are not about to sit there and let you talk to them that way and do this and that. God is actually big enough to take your full, raw, complete self. In the times when I was struggling, feeling that separation from family, feeling the separation from friends, and not knowing what direction I was going in my life, everything felt like a mess.

God is big enough for your full, raw, complete self. Share on X

Yet, I had this assurance that the Lord was there and that the struggle and the frustrations were not meaningless. He was going to turn everything around and make it make sense. I have seen that on the other side of some of these things. It’s crazy. Some people might not understand, but I can actually count it as a blessing because in those tough times, I get to see who God is and how loving, how real, and how available He is.

He would never say, “Sorry, I have to go do this. I can’t sit here and listen to you cry. Sorry, I have to do this. I cannot listen to you talk about the same thing that you talked about ten million times.” No, God will actually listen. He is there to receive whatever it is that you’re putting out. Nothing is ever too much for Him because He’s bigger than ourselves. We don’t have to worry about the human things that stop our friends, family, or our community from being there with us.

There’s a need and a desire within every being to be understood, to be loved, and to be cared for unconditionally. Unfortunately, as humans, it is an impossible expectation for one person to be everything to you. When I read, “I’m here,” in the beginning, it’s like, “God, You say You’re here, but this is happening. Where were You when this hurt me? Where were You when I was abused? Where were You when this person did that? Where were You?”

He’s saying, “I’m here. I’m still here.” I realized that even through the frustrations and through the pain, it’s so difficult to describe the deep pain of feeling like you don’t belong, even in your family, which you grew up in, and of feeling that you don’t have a place in your friend group growing up. You’re there, but you’re not there. There’s this detachment. Everybody wants to feel like they belong. With God, everybody belongs, regardless of your struggle, regardless of your pain, and regardless of your story.

You belong. When God says, “I’m here,” He is. “I’m here for you. I’m here to get you through this. I’m here to heal you. I’m here to make things make sense. I’m here. Whatever it is that you need, I’m here.” Through the challenges, I discovered that, “Yes, you are here. You’re my provider. You are here. You’re my healer. You’re here. You’re ever-present. You’re here. You’re listening to me again and again and again about the same thing.” He’s ever-present. That’s what it means when God is here.

Thank you. If someone is reading, and they’re thinking, “I want to get this book right now,” where do they go? How would they contact you if they had questions?

They’re going to go to Amazon. You can type Rivers in the Desert. Probably, my name would be the fastest way. You can type the subtitle, Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times, and I will pop up. They can also follow me on Instagram @hey_ladyk to see how I live my life and how I’m getting through this life. They can follow me there to stay connected.

Thirsty: Finding True Satisfaction In The Bread Of Life

Thank you. Two more poems. Page 55, Thirsty. It goes back to the original thing. People think thirsty has a whole different meaning nowadays. I couldn’t help that, especially after we talked about the idea of wanting to get married. I am not that thirsty. No.

There’s an element to that in this poem, but it’s not only about that yet. “Thirsty. There’s a certain type of hunger that cannot be satisfied with anything else, not fame, not success, not money, not sex, not even food. There’s a certain type of thirst that cannot be quenched by anything else. No amount of lemonade, sweet tea, alcohol, or even water could be enough. There’s one who can feel that hunger, though. He’s the bread of life. The one who tastes of this life will never be hungry again. There’s one who can satisfy that thirst, the one who has living water. The one who drinks of this water will never thirst again. It’s funny because He has this supernatural meal prepared for us, but He’s a gentleman. Instead of barging in, He knocks and patiently waits at the door. Will you let Him in?”

What should the reader get from that?

This is the reality of life. So many people spend their time chasing after different things. They think, “If I could make enough money, I’ll be good. If I make enough of a name for myself, I’ll be good. If I could get married. If I could have a child.” The list is endless. There’s actually nothing that can satisfy us except for our Creator. He’s the one who made us. He’s the one who knows what we need. He’s the one who wants us unconditionally and wants to fellowship with us and be with us.

Nothing can truly satisfy us except our Creator. He made us, knows what we need, and loves us unconditionally. Share on X

This is hopefully a realization because we see so many people, say celebrities, who have so much money. They have prestige. They have a name and fame. People know them. People love them. We still see them, unfortunately, committing suicide or being intoxicated with all kinds of things, trying to feel something so intangible. They may not even know what it is that they’re searching for. This is about that. It’s for us to realize that nothing can satisfy us like knowing Jesus.

When you know Him, not His people who go to church, say this, and do something else, not the pastor that says one thing, but meanwhile has situations going on that are unbecoming of a pastor, not any of those, not the people, but actually Jesus, the relationship with Him is what satisfies in ways that can almost not even be explained. He is everything. Once you realize that and come into a relationship with Him, you will never be thirsty. You will never be hungry again because you have everything that you need in Him.

Not only did you write a book, but you gave a playlist. Is this your personal cry list? How did this playlist come about?

You can say that. It’s funny. When I go through challenging things, I actually create playlists for myself to speak life and truth to get me out of my head because I’m a thinker. I think, I think, I think, and it doesn’t go anywhere. I create a playlist for myself. When I feel those feelings again of whatever it is, maybe it’s fear of the unknown, maybe it’s feeling alone, or anything, I create a playlist. When I feel those things, I can go through it.

When I was dealing with so many frustrations, the betrayal, feeling alone, and being isolated due to feeling separate from my family and friends, I made a playlist. There were certain songs that spoke to me. As soon as they would come on in the words, I would be a bucket of tears. I would be a mess, but that actually helped me. It was cathartic. It helped me to heal because there were some things that I was feeling that I could not even say to anybody. I could only write them out.

I didn’t have words for that. When I hear some of these songs, I’m like, “Yes, this is how I feel. Somebody put it into words for me.” I would be crying and like, “God, do You see this? This is what I’m dealing with.” It wasn’t originally called Desert Playlist, Rain, or Peace, but I curated them for this book, specifically, so that the reader could have a connection to what I was writing. These are songs that spoke to me while I was going through this dark time of “What is my life right now? What is life?” There’s a point where it felt so unreal. Not that I don’t want to be here, but if I could wake up and not be here in this situation, that would be great. I was feeling that.

There are different songs up here, wondering. It is talking about like, “God, You’re going to come through, but I’m wondering, when do You plan to come through for me?” Steady Me by Hollyn is talking about how God knows how to keep us steady instead of being all so much emotion or being low. I feel nothing like depressed and all of that. God knows how to study us. There’s Be Alright by Evan and Eris, which says, “I know that we’re all going to be all right. He’s going to make us get through this.”

They are different songs. Some are worship songs. Some are army style. Some are rap. It’s different styles of music that I hope my readers could connect to any number of them to listen to the words and know that their emotions and feelings are valid there. Some of them are angry. Why is this happening to me? Some of them are hopeful. It’s a mix of all kinds of things you would experience in the desert. Rain is very sad, a lot of crying, and then peace is finding hope on the other side of it.

Desert Seasons: Personal Stories Of Profound Grief And Glimmers Of Hope

This book has more depth and meaning when people read this conversation. It is why they will find hope in this. I’ve asked you a lot of questions. I try to give my guests an opportunity to be the show host. Do you have any questions for me?

I would want to hear about your desert season and what glimmers of hope you saw in those hard times, whether it was losing your spouse or anything else. What was your desert, and what were the glimmers of hope that you saw in them?

The first time that I want to say I experienced profound grief, I did not have language for it. Thank you for this question. That is when my late husband and I had a miscarriage. We were excited. We had been married for maybe three years. It was like, “We’re going to start having children.” I stopped taking the pill and became pregnant immediately. I didn’t think I was going to be able to because people said, “You come off the pill, then it’ll be a year or so before you get pregnant.”

I was like, “We’re Fertile Myrtle over here.” Everything was going well. I had some spotting right around the time when my menstrual cycle would have taken place. I called the OB-GYN. They had a conversation. I had an appointment very soon. It’s like, “If it were this amount, and it was this timeline, do not worry.” I went in. They’re doing the regular checkup. I can see there’s more energy in the room than normal.

I don’t know if I grabbed somebody’s hand or arm. I was like, “What is going on?” They told me the potential of what they were seeing. The doctor needed to come in. There was no baby anymore. It was like, “All this hope, all of this expectation, all this is gone.” On top of that, I had to have a D&C, where they literally go inside and scrape you out. It felt like a violation on top of the reality of this, still sinking in.

A friend of mine gave me a book called A Deeper Shade of Grace. It’s a story about a woman who has had multiple miscarriages and her journey through that. It is realizing that the thing we hope for may not happen, but that doesn’t mean that life is hopeless. In coming to terms with that, the reality is that there are a lot of people in this world who are living a life and have never had children. Their life is still meaningful. Their life is still full of joy in different things.

I needed to come to terms with that reality. I had a relationship with God at that point. It was like, “Either this is going to sustain me, or I’m going to be off the rails pretty quick here, and what this looks like.” There was a part of that. It was off the rails mentally. I didn’t realize how grief could impact my mind, how I was struggling and feeling very lethargic and not at my full vibration and thinking. The second place where I feel like grief was profound for me is when I received a diagnosis of breast cancer. I remember, I knew that the sick were not good at taking care of themselves. I knew my husband was going to be focused on me.

I needed a third party to keep us in check. Because I’m a project manager, I can plan a thing. I can put things together. I’m thinking about the process. I have all this laid out. I went to the doctor for what I thought was going to be a checkup for a procedure I had, but they had the results. Who was with me that day? Nobody, because this was supposed to be a quick in and out. I was like, “You all play too much. I can’t wait for you to check some stitches, make sure there is no infection, and send me on my way.”

They were like, “We have your diagnosis.” I was frozen. I consider myself, in most parts, a high-functioning person. My words are stammering. I am like, “This is not how my plan was for this.” They sat down. They were reading all these words. My mind was everywhere. It’s like, “Blah, blah, blah, blah, cancer, blah, blah, all these terms.” It was like, “Do you need to talk to somebody?” I said, “What I need is that sheet of paper.” 

They were like, “We can’t give you that.” I was like, “You got a copier? I’m going to need that sheet of paper because you have laid out all these terms that I have no concept of.” To me, words have power in what I speak into the universe. This is me as a person, not widowhood. The Holy Spirit dwells within me. I have the power to speak life and death. I needed to be very careful how I proceeded from that moment, no matter what fear was wrestling in my head, and going around. I got that sheet of paper. I went in my car. I needed to start professing healing.

I needed to start professing the word of God. I needed, even though my knees were shaking and everything was like, “But this has to be the sound for this. This has to be where my strength is.” There was a lot of crying, a lot of unknown, and a lot of people taking me to treatment and doing different things. I was wondering, “Is this where my life ends? We all have a beginning and an end. What things do I need to put in place for my husband and my children? What things do I need to make sure are said or done, being realistic here?”

I also knew that my positioning of that would dictate how my husband would respond when I got home, how my children would receive that, being a reverend at my church, how the congregation would respond, and how my children, my family, my siblings, and my parents would respond. We set the tone for that situation. People who are in our community come around us based on how we’ve shown up and try to figure out where they can fit in and how they can support. That was the second round.

My husband’s dying destroyed life as I knew it. I remember thinking, “He straight-up died. He was gone. This is how it ended?” I remember having immense support. My siblings are my rock. My siblings are on deck. My friends are on deck. Eight years later, they are still equally on deck and supporting. Even though with all that support, you have to walk through that desert individually. You can try to tether to the people who have been there. At the end of the day, it’s our own choices, what we believe, how we feel, and what that looks like.

I remember after my brother left and after my cousin left, it had been about a month and a half of people. My daughter and I are in the house alone. My husband was an avid hunter. In the backyard was this styrofoam deer that he would use to go arrow practicing with him and the children. I was drinking some tea. I was looking out the window. I was like, “He is never going to shoot another arrow into that deer again,” and ugly crying right there.

I could hear God say, “The plans that I have for you are good.” I was like, “We are obviously on sleep deprivation because there is nothing looking good over here.” In October 2016, I had an emergency hysterectomy because it looked like the cancer was going to ovarian cancer. Our son left to go to the military. Mark took a job in Virginia because we were trying to relocate here. I’m sure when people heard Mark had a heart attack and died, they were like, “What? I thought Tina was going to die. She was sick.” I could envision what people would come across because I’m sitting there thinking, “It was him? This is trash.”

Looking out that window, there was God saying, “The plans that I have for you are good,” and me saying, “I can’t.” God gave me twenty things that I wrote down in my journal about how He planned and how He knew. At the end of writing those down, I was like, “Still not a fan, but I’m going to trust You. I’m going to trust You in all the difficult parts of this because this is uncharted territory.” The first thing was to get a therapist. We get marriage counselors. We get all this. I was like, “Somebody needs to walk me through grief. Someone needs to walk me through life without my husband being here, understanding that, and being honest about how hard this is.” Those would be the three experiences for me, and what that was like.

Thank you for sharing. Something that I want to point out is that you’ve lived through more life than I have been able to encounter, but it’s the series of desert seasons that you have had. It’s not just one. It’s not like, “I’ve been through my desert season. I’m good.” No, the reality of life is that you will have desert seasons. The question is not if. It’s when you have a desert season. Something that I want to point out to the readers is that it’s not that God puts these things in our lives. It’s not that He starts them. It’s not that He says, “Tina’s husband has to go.”

No, I don’t personally believe that, but I believe that He is so good that even through life, through the trials, and through loss, He would actually show up in those moments and make them good. Whether or not you know the Lord, you’re going to go through difficult times. Life is life. There are seasons. That’s something that I want to point out. Yes, this is a season. A desert is a season. There are glimpses of hope through them. The Lord can take you through them and get you through them in ways that nobody else could. Thank you for sharing your desert seasons with us.

Supporting Those In Grief: Practical Advice For Desert Seasons

There’s so much to learn from somebody who has gone through grief. I’m curious, what can people do for people who are in desert seasons? I know you said that how we show up to the desert season dictates and helps our community know how to show up for us. For someone who maybe doesn’t know what they need or how somebody can help, what is most helpful for you in a desert season? What brings you that hope?

How we show up to the desert season dictates how our community shows up for us. Share on X

The question you’re asking me, to be certain, is, “I’m in a rough place. You’re trying to support me. What advice can I give to you as the supporter?”

Yes.

One, if you’re willing and wanting, it probably gleams to me you have some sense of who this person is. The proximity of our relationship has drawn you to want to help me in this difficult time. Remember that you know who I am. You know my likes and my dislikes. You’ve been spending some time with me. This is not, “The person is a total stranger, and you have no clue.” Remember that you love me. Remember that you know what I look like when I’m not in this rough patch. Who I am showing up to be may be looking foreign to you.

You don’t have to try to change it. It’s part of the process. This is what grief looks like. Don’t make it about you. I don’t care if you’re uncomfortable. I don’t care if having this conversation with you is going to make you weird. You’re not the one in pain. You can go deal with that. If you’re choosing to show up, don’t make “I” statements. It is not about you. You’re going to be uncomfortable because we are not used to people being hurt. We always try to fix it.

We want to be the court jester, make you laugh, or do all this other stuff. It’s probably not fixable. You’re going to strap on your seatbelt and be along for the ride. Understand, I may not always want to talk about this. Just because my husband died, I’m more than a widow. There are other things that I like. Maybe I don’t want to think about it because it’s so apparent right here. I may not be cooking. You know the places that I like. Drop off some gift cards. Don’t make a dish. Don’t drop off a case of water and four or five gift cards for the place that you know I like to eat.

If you know I need the trash to go out, do not come to someone who is overwhelmed mentally with grief and go, “Let me know whatever you want to do.” I don’t have time to think of that. You know me. You care. Lean in. I don’t like doing laundry. Come over and do the laundry. Hire somebody to clean the house. Do the things that you know I’m not doing because I am overwhelmed by this profound loss. Lean in and say, “I’m going to do such and such on Tuesdays at 3:00.” Done. Say less.

“I’m going to take care of this. I know your children need to go to practice. Your husband is dead. He can’t do this. I’m going to commit.” When you promise, you better do it, or you may have a B plan, but don’t come back and tell me, “Such and such happened,” because my situation still sucks. There’s nothing you’re going to tell me about your perfect little life. As far as I’m concerned, this is going to make me feel like, “Why do I now need to recoup and do the thing that you said you were going to do?”

Don’t tell somebody, “If you want me to do anything, let me know,” because I can tell you that when people say that, the first thing that comes to my mind is, “Can you make Mark come back? You said anything. I know it’s not logical, but that’s what I desire. That’s what I wanted.” Name it and say, “I’m going to do such and such.” If we were kiki friends, say, “I’m going to come over and watch the show you used to watch. I’m going to have the popcorn. I’m going to have the bottle of wine. I’m going to have the candy we like. I’m wearing my pajamas. You wear yours. We’re going to do this.” Don’t make me think. Tell me how you’re going to lean in. Don’t worry about fixing it. Just be present.

 

 

Thank you for that. That’s all. That’s my last question.

I want to say something to our readers, our community, and then I’m going to allow you to close up this conversation. I want to say thank you for trusting me with your time. Thank you for trusting Katherine with this conversation. Yes, this was a conversation that spoke to our personal faith. Widowhood Real Talk with Tina is a registered 501(c)(3) that has no religious affiliation. No matter what your faith is, your position, we are here to support you when you feel like you are alone. These conversations are meant to share and provide encouragement to let you know that your grief is seen. We are here to support you. I thank you for trusting us with your time. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Thank you so much for joining us. I am so grateful. Thank you, Ms. Tina, for allowing me to come on and to encourage the people in the grieving times. I hope that through the words of this book, through even the poems that were shared, that you all would connect to those feelings and feel that you’re not alone. Know that there is somebody. There are others who have felt the pain, even if it’s just a fraction of what you are feeling. There is hope for you on the other side of this journey. Be encouraged.

 

Important Links

• Rivers in the Desert: Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times
• Katherine E. ST. on Instagram
• Thank God for Goliath
• A Deeper Shade of Grace

 

About Katherine E. ST.

Katherine E. ST is an author, educator, entrepreneur, and more. As a Ghanaian-born American, she has had a multicultural upbringing, which has contributed to the unique vantage point from which she views life.

Katherine has earned a Bachelor of Science in Architecture from Texas Tech University and a Master of Public Administration from Old Dominion University. Additionally, she is a licensed K-12 teacher and the author of Rivers in the Desert: Glimmers of Hope in Impossible Times.

Katherine credits her life’s accomplishments to her belief in and commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ, without Whom, none of her endeavors would have been possible. She has a heart to see the brokenhearted restored, especially for teenagers and young adults, to discover their identity and purpose. For a closer look and further encouragement, you can follow Katherine on Instagram @Hey_LadyK.