Dating as a widow and widower is not just about finding companionship. This particular dating experience is also about rebuilding trust, rediscovering joy, and embracing new beginnings. In this thought-provoking conversation, I welcome Francisco Rodriguez and Jessica Zoeller to explore the unique challenges and profound opportunities widows and widowers face when stepping back into the dating world. Together, they discuss practical advice, emotional resilience, and inspiring stories of hope. Tune in as these two amazing souls offer a roadmap for healing and connection whether you are navigating this journey yourself or supporting a loved one.
I am sharing my experience of loving the same man for 32 years, a mother to two adult children, a retired military officer, a breast cancer survivor, and my connections with others.
Anyone experiencing suicidal thoughts should reach out to a suicide hotline or local emergency number in their country: Suicide Hotlines and Prevention Resources Around the World
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Widow Dating Experience With Francisco Rodriguez & Jessica Zoeller
We are at our final conversation with Francisco and Jessica, and I am so grateful for the love of commitment. Welcome to the show. Maybe your final conversation with this, but maybe not final overall.
Thanks for having us.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you. Fran, what was your experience entering the dating world?
I have no experience of entering the dating world, especially in these COVID times. Everything was more complicated to do in person. Everything was complicated because I didn’t know anyone in the area. I remember I talked to one of my friends, and he told me about the app Hinge. That was the one that he also used. He told me that one was probably the one that I should use if I wanted to find someone who was serious and open to commitment and being serious in a relationship.
I’m glad that you mentioned that because a lot of people or everyone has their opinion of what they think is on a particular app, and this is not TikTok, this is real talk. Hinge, a lot of people think is a booty call or a hookup app. I hear a lot of people saying that, but I’m saying what I hear. You are probably the third couple that I know that met or I’m guessing you met on Hinge, but I know three couples that have met on Hinge and married.
I’m glad that you said that because you don’t know what is on that app until you try it out and see. I’m glad that you mentioned that. Some people were thinking Hinge is this and that. Not so. It depends on who you are as a person and what you are going to attract to you and what that’s going to look like and when you find out what’s attracting to you works, then you pursue that. If not, then you pivot. I’m glad that you mentioned that. Jessica, what was your entry point into the dating world? What did that look like?
I started on Match.com and matched with some interesting people. You’ve heard the stories. It was not going the way that I was hoping it would. At some point, I said, “That’s it. I’m going to switch dating apps.” I have heard of Hinge on television and stuff, they advertise it very much as looking for somebody who’s serious and wants a serious relationship with them.
I went on Hinge as well and then in between that, I also dated a fellow widow who I met through a support group on Facebook, and it was a relationship that wasn’t right. You can like and love a person but know that they are not the right person for you. I moved forward after that into Hinge and talked to some people. I can’t remember when we matched at some point. I was never dating anyone from there.
I think I sent you a message because it was something that you were looking for. Someone serious. Since I cannot find it. We were talking about this. Then when I told you, this is probably not the site.
How Widowhood Shaped Their Dating Journey
His first message to me was so negative and I was like, “A girl can hope that she finds the right person,” and then we ended up chatting for twenty minutes on this particular website. On Match you can say whether you were divorced or widowed. They didn’t have that on Hinge. We did not know that we were widows until we started talking, and about twenty minutes in, I asked the question like, “Why are you single?” The good old “Why are you single” question and he said he was a widow, and I freaked out, and I was like, “Me too.”
I was shocked when I saw you are very young. That was my reaction.
Just a little bit. We have a six-year age gap. I was widowed at 34. I didn’t know that was your reaction when I was young. There are people who are much younger than us.
I want to go back to this first super encouraging comment you made. When you sent the message, Fran, what were you thinking in your head about about how it would be received versus how it came across? When you were typing up, were you like, “I’m going to give her some cool tips on dating,” or it’s what came to mind? How did you think it was going to land?
I like her profile and she was living not far from where I was living before. Then I just sent her those messages and we started chatting back and forth. It was very fast replying, which was nice. I regret that we deleted it.
When you delete it, you can’t go back and see all the messages. The first one was something that I had written that I was like not looking for a project I was hoping to find somebody stable. He came back with, “This might not be the website for you,” and I am assuming you had shared it with me because that was the first point of talking. It was pretty negative, but I was like, “We were living in COVID times. I get it. It is post-COVID. I was like, “I don’t know what he’s going through,” so I will be approachable. What went from a very negative start, he’s probably 1,000 times more positive than I am in general, and so it’s funny that that’s how we got our start.
I’m wondering if you are joking because I realized that you are much of a joker. Was that supposed to be taken as a joke, or did you think it was real advice?
It was somewhat true in a way that I was tired of the app itself. I was about to give myself a break.
Rightfully so. Now that you are a widow I know that it made more sense why he came across the way he did because it is so hard to put yourself back out there after becoming a widow. It’s exhausting for not a widow to go online dating.
Challenges Of Reentering The Dating World As Widows
I would dare say most people want to get to the good part. They want to get to the part where they have their person again, where this relationship is established, and someone knows them inside and out but that’s the minority, it takes time to build that type of communication. This is not TikTok. You can have your drink right there.
It’s not a drink. It’s just coffee. I swear.
No. I’m saying you don’t have to make things that make you stressed because of TikTok.
It’s funny because he gave this to me as one of my gifts, and it has my nickname in Spanish. This means “Cute, affectionate, cuddly one,” but I’m always afraid when I take it out in public, people are going to think that I’m drinking alcohol.
Let them think what they want.
Most of the time, it’s in the morning at 9:00. It’s fine.
That’s what I thought.
That was one of our first conversations, too. When she said that she liked mimosa, I told her mimosa in Spanish means “The cute, loving one.” Then we always make that fun.
He’s mimosa. I’m mimosa.
You make a good point, Jessica. The idea of dating for me I felt like my dating experience was very different being a widow than what it was when I was young Tina before I ever met my husband. From talking to other people, if something didn’t go well in all those getting-to-know-you moments, it seemed to hit harder. For me, it was like, this could be it. I could be by myself after having a good relationship and having to settle into that. Before, when I was younger, it was like, “Next one.” Now it’s like, “Child, you’re 51. I don’t know.”
I will say going back to when I was dating on Match the first person I dated, we were like talking, dating type of thing. Getting to know each other. You’ve heard all these stories. This guy I thought was such a good person, and I got love-bombed very quickly. I was told too many personal pieces of information too fast, but I thought, “It’s a person who needs somebody to talk to.” As a mental health provider, it took me way too long to realize that I was dealing with a narcissist.
My first experience out in the dating world was to the point where we would be having great conversations, and they would bring up something that wasn’t even negative, to begin with. Storytime. When I was talking to this person, it was relatively early after losing Jerry. I would say probably 8 or 9 months after. When we were talking, he and I were on the phone. I was going to switch it off, but when I got in the car, it switched over to the speaker and my kids were in the car. He got irate because I hung up the phone when it switched over, and I didn’t want them to hear that I was talking to a gentleman.
We would be having great nights of conversation and fine, and then the next thing I know he’d switch it and be like, “You’re embarrassed of me. You don’t want your kids to know about me.” I’m like, “I met you 30 seconds ago. Chill out.” I from the get-go at the starting line met a horrible situation of having to learn that not everyone is good out there. A lot of people have some major problems. It was even harder for me to see it because I was excited. I also see that women and men who are reentering the dating world don’t know, because these were not things we were necessarily aware of then but now we know. Then, when you’re excited about something, the rose-colored glasses come on, and you don’t see things or you ignore them until you go, “I can’t ignore this anymore.”
As much as it is a hard thing to go into the dating process, you have to be very careful. That’s where it gets exhausting. It’s not the people you are meeting, but having to be so on guard because there are people with major issues. There are also legitimate scammer-type people. I hate to say that, but there are people out there who are not good.
You have to be careful in general when you are dating again, but especially as a widow because people have assumptions about us, especially about the financial aspect of things. People think, they have money, they have this, they have that without realizing that, “I’m sorry.” I keep talking about it, but it’s something I’m very passionate about being so careful and cautious. When you are going into the dating world while also being open. It’s a hard balance to strike.
People assume that widows and widowers have money. However, everybody does have money anyway. Share on XThat duality. I have this term that I’ve coined “Wifing up too quickly,” or “Husbanding up” too quickly. Back to the point, we are accustomed to talking, being in a place where people are sharing and doing things like that. We may not even pick up the love bombing because we yearn to be in that type of scenario again but in doing that, someone hasn’t earned the right to have that space in our life.
“We met you online. I may have not met you in person. Do you think I want my kids to know that you exist? You are still an experiment to all reality. I have not even given you my real phone number. You don’t know my middle name.” The discovery process. I often relate it to the idea of a job interview. “You are interviewing to be a part of my life. I don’t need you. I want to have someone in my life.”
When I think about some of the most important jobs I’ve had, there were layers of interviews, panels, or different people involved in that. I’ve found that it takes about 6 to 9 months before people start being comfortable. You may have heard them belch one time and they no longer pretend to keep everything on the up and up. You hear somebody pass gas and you’re like, “I know we’re comfortable now,” but they’re doing all this stuff to present the best part of you but there’s more of you behind that. I caution people. There’s a lot of conversation like, “Do you put widow or do you not?” How soon do you tell someone? Fran, for you, it sounds as if it was easy to lay this out front “I’m a widower, and this is what you’re getting.” Some people think you shouldn’t. What would you say to that?
I’ll tell you why because I found that whenever I said, “I’m a widower,” it would trigger pity in the other person who said, “I’m sorry. I feel bad,” and then the conversation would die. Saying that you were a widow or widower many times, I don’t want to call it a mood breaker for some people. That’s why I thought the opposite way. If saying, “I’m a widower,” is a deal breaker or mood breaker for that person, then that means they’re not worth my time.
You’d rather put it out there up front and figure out if it’s even worth your time or not.
Importance Of Early Communication In Dating
I used it the other way around. I wouldn’t say, “I’m Francisco. I’m a widower.” Not like that but if I saw there was some back and forth in the conversation, I found it important to mention it early in the conversation. Many people were scared or didn’t know what to say. They’d change their tone or even gossip. I don’t know if that happened to you.
I have more pity. You have to be careful of the Superman complex like everyone trying to be the savior. I feel like it may be different for women and men. I know some of your experiences but I don’t know what you are going through. What I can tell you is that I found more men would say, “That’s so terrible. I’m sorry,” then switch the subject. I also found there was this attitude of, “I can take care of you. I can do this. I can do that.” I’m like, “I don’t need anything from you. I’m good. You might be the one needing help from me. I’m okay with that.” Don’t sit there and pretend like you’ve got this in the bag because you think you can take care of me because I don’t need it.
What I found also was a bit of jealousy but in a weird way.
“I’m jealous of your deceased spouse.”
I dated someone for a very short time before her. Someone I met through Hinge, and it was more like, “You will get over it. You will move on.” It was as if they were saying, “Don’t talk about her or even think about your late spouse.” It was weird because, in her mind, she was in a divorce. In her mind, I was dealing with a divorce. I told you in our last conversation that being a widow is like a forced divorce. We don’t want to part ways, but we’re forced to divorce in a sense. That’s why they found that some divorced people wrongly thought that being a widower is being divorced. I’ve said, “No, I still love that person. That will be for the rest of my life.” We’ve always talked very openly about the fact that I love my wife and she loves her husband and that’s something normal. It should be like that.
Thank you for sharing that, Fran. I can relate to that, and also to what Jessica said. I remember when I started dating and saying that I was a widow, the response was often, “Are you ready for this?” I thought, “The amount of work I’ve done for myself.” I made a lot of test runs or different things like that. Sometimes within the first conversation or within a month, I was going, “You’re not ready for this.” It’s interesting when people make assumptions just because my spouse is no longer here where I’m at mentally, physically, and spiritually, and my ability to comprehend and the person saying, “Don’t talk about them,” I’m like, “I’m about to not talk about you is what’s about to happen.” The idea that I will always love my late husband does not prevent me from loving someone else. The two of you met very quickly and shared that you are a widow and widower, was that on the app, or had you moved to texting on your real phones?
It was on the app still.
No. It was on the phone.
No. It was on the app.
When we moved on and met in person was through the phone.
She’s asking when you found out you were widows.
That was on the app.
Ten points on the Newlywed Game. They agree.
I moved on very fast.
On the app, we figured it out. It was about twenty minutes after we had started our conversation.
Fran, how long after the initial conversation did you two meet in person?
We met in person on March 25th.
He knows the date ten points over there.
Important days.
It was probably two and a half weeks.
I was still limping because I sprained my ankle on my birthday. It was one month before we met. I remember I was still limping and recovering. That might have been in early March, probably three weeks before.
It was a couple of weeks after. We took our time. We chatted on the app for a little while, eventually exchanged numbers with one another, and then we talked a lot.
I feel like that’s the one good thing about the internet stuff. There are limitations to all of these things, but you can find out a lot about a person before you ever meet them. If you’re using an app like Tinder, you’re hoping to meet up with someone, but for me, I need to vet this person to make sure they could be part of my life and, eventually, the kids’ lives. That was important for me. That’s what we did. We got to know each other for a couple of weeks, and I feel like we knew each other well before we even met.
When And How To Introduce Kids To A New Partner
You bring up a good point. Is there a timeline for introducing someone to your children? Everyone has their perspective, for Jessica. For you, Fran, was there a timeline before you thought you wanted to meet somebody’s children?
I also wanted to be sure that we were the right person for each other because I took it very seriously that she had children. I didn’t want to be the person who just showed up and then said goodbye. I wanted to make sure we were in a position where we were serious. We didn’t want to do anything wrong for the children especially. That’s something I always took very seriously because she can choose the kids. If she chooses someone that isn’t right for the children, it’s not good. I took that very seriously. I still remember when we met. I was even more nervous than meeting the in-laws.
As far as the timeline, everyone is different. How I approached it personally, was that I told the kids that I was dating and they knew that I was dating. They had mentioned, and this is a kid thing, so take this for what it’s worth, that they wanted another dad. I was like, “No one’s going to replace your dad. You need to understand that even if mommy dates and marries somebody else, that person does not replace your dad. That can never happen, but there can be somebody important in your life who helps push you in the right way, who can be a dad figure, who may even be called dad at some point.
They knew that I was dating them and they knew I was dating Francisco. They heard about him. We met for the first thing in March, and then it got to a point where they were saying, “We want to meet him,” and I said, “Great.” Then it got to be about May, about two months later, that the conversation was had with my kids when would you like to meet him?
Once I was certain that I felt very strongly about Fran, I said, “We love each other” by that point, which happened. You know because you know the questions to ask and you are looking for in another person. Those things happen a little bit faster with internet dating, but we were secure in our relationship. The kids wanted to meet him.
We were going to go to Disney with my parents. Not him. I said, “Do you want to meet him before or after Disney? What would you like to do?” They made that decision for themselves. They said, “After Disney.” We did the Disney trip, and then the next weekend, we met each other at a park, a very neutral place, somewhere that they could say they were uncomfortable and they wanted to walk away. A happy and exciting place, and then we went for ice cream afterward. We went to Dairy Queen afterward. They think about that a lot. Even now when we go to that park, they will bring up things like, “That’s Fran.”
Just about that, they moved the Dairy Queen to a new location, but they brought that last time. Jackson says, “I feel bad.”
That has changed. They even recognized that like, “This is not the one that we went to,” but at least we have this tradition of, “We go to the park, we go get ice cream, we do this.”
How were the children when they met Fran?
Jackson would have been 8, and she had turned 5.
What were your apprehensions as a mom getting ready to introduce your children to a new person in their life?
I’m a mental health provider, so my biggest issue was attachment and them getting attached to him only for something to go wrong and for it to fall apart, and then they lost another person. That was my biggest apprehension with them. I knew you were a safe person. I had a lot of ways of knowing. Mom FBI over here.
That should be a thing. If you don’t have a friend that’s an FBI how to search, you need to. We are going to pause here. Once you have somebody’s real phone number, it doesn’t even take having to pay. The internet should be your friend. You can find out if someone has a criminal record. You can find out the people connected to them, and that is why I used a Google Voice phone number when I was dating originally because you can find somebody’s credit report and their real address. If you say, “That’s too much,” I’m like, “You plan on them putting their tongue in your mouth one day, why would you not want to do this research?”
I’m not the young naive person that met my late husband. I’m an entire grown woman. Like you said, “Knowing what you want or don’t want,” it’s like I don’t have time. I don’t know how long we are going to be here, so I don’t have time to waste. I encourage people to do some research when they are looking to get closer to someone because unfortunately, who people present themselves to may not be who they are.
You go, “I feel like I should trust them,” Why? You don’t know them, but the trust can be furthered along by finding out that they have been telling you the truth and give you a sense of comfort because I will say it, for me, being a woman, I feel more vulnerable when I’m in a situation dating someone and need to have a sense of comfort. I cannot understate the importance of being Mom FBI, Friend FBI, or Dating FBI. I recommend doing your research.
Yeah, 100%. The big thing is safety. When I was younger, the same thing, was, “This boy likes me and wants to marry me or get to know me.” Very ladi da about things, and I’m like, “I know the world that we live in. I know how people act.” I see it firsthand every day, and so I didn’t want to put my kids in a safe situation. I also laid the groundwork that if he messes with my kids, he’s done. That’s it.
If you are rude, hostile, or anything, you are done. At the beginning of things. Now you are a parent and you have to discipline and you have to tell them not to do things. I wanted somebody who’s going to tell the kids, “That’s not safe. Maybe we shouldn’t do this,” but if you are yelling at my kid and you meet them, “Bye.”
It’s the opposite. Now you tell me you should yell at them more.
It’s okay. You’ve earned the right at this point.
I want to go back to something. We feel as if we may know the questions to ask for dating, but what are some questions that you did ask? Some people may have no clue of what to ask because we may still be in the, “They like me. I had a good husband before. I want to trust that this is a thing,” and they go full in. What are some things that, Fran, you recommend gentlemen ask in that dating experience and not take for granted, and then the same to you, Jessica?
I would say be natural. The same type of questions I would ask in person, ask the same questions online. It would just be natural to ask, “What work have you been doing?” “What did you do for work?” “What are you doing for work?” Talk like in a regular conversation. I see it the way you connect better with a person and you can see if that person is good for you or not. Another advantage of dating apps is that they write. I’m not a native English speaker but if they write full of grammar errors and everything messed up, I preach it to the choir. That’s a big red flag for me. If I text someone who writes in a very wrong way or grammar as much as I do.
What you are saying is if you can’t communicate with me by text, how are we a match? Everybody has different requirements. Everyone has different red flags. When I was dating, I was older than both of you. I did not want to date anybody that had children at home. I didn’t mind them having children, but I needed to make sure they were not at home because that was a complication I was not prepared to deal with. Nor did I want to.
I needed someone stable. Stability looked like you lived in the same place for a certain amount of time. You had connectivity with your family. I could engage with them and get a sense of who you are. I didn’t care what the job was, but I needed to know that you held a job for a good period because to me, working beyond circumstances out of your control, when you are able to do something for a long period, it shows to me you know how to deal when things get rough without quitting. That you know how to navigate in very difficult waters. Going to work every day is not always easy, but being able to do that and maintain something showed a lot of character traits that were important for me. I didn’t need anybody to take care of me economically, but I did need to know that you were able to take care of yourself if we merged our lives.
That’s something that I already noticed when you were talking about the kids and how you live and what you were doing and everything. Another point that you made was to make sure that a person has a good relationship with their family. You always told me right away that you always wanted to come back to this area because you wanted to be close to your family.
I have a very close family.
It may be 1 or 2 people in your family, it’s like a hot mess, but like all of them you get along with nobody. If you don’t have any friends or any family, it wouldn’t be a good match for me because those are some things that I make a basis for. Jessica, what are some questions you think women should ask widows or maybe not widows that are dating?
It boils down to authenticity like you were saying, but then making sure that you are asking questions that will tell you about their morals, ethics, values, and belief systems because those are incredibly important, and knowing what your stance is on all of those things. Are you okay with being with somebody who is? I will use this example. I hope you don’t mind me saying this but like I’m a Christian, Catholic person. He is more agnostic atheist type thing, and was I comfortable with that? I was. I think that everyone’s allowed to have their belief systems, but there are certain belief systems and values that I would not and I don’t want to talk about it, but that I would if we did not align on certain things that I could not be with that person.
Let’s say the money thing. Let’s say somebody spends all their money right away and they’re not a saver. You know for you if you are going to have this lifestyle together, how are their financial choices going to impact your life? Going back to the children. It’s super important, and back to the FBI thing. You need to find out if they are a pedophile or if they have done different things to children. You are placing your child in a situation. Sometimes, like Fran said, they are going through you. What decisions are made? We are responsible for our kids. If we don’t do that due diligence, I feel like we are missing a piece of this dating experience that goes further than us.
That was a huge part of it. That was tied into the values, moral ethics, and belief systems because I wanted to make sure I was the right fit for him and that he was the right fit for me. Once you’ve established that that’s the case, you have to, in the process of all of this, ask those questions of, “If this were to work out, if we were to go this far,” and you have to be unabashedly asking these questions. You cannot hesitate because these are the children you are talking about. I want to make sure that you want to have some role in their life and what does that look like?
I remember asking that question very specifically like, “How would you deal with another man’s children who are in this picture?” He said when the time came and everything, that he would love them as his own, and that was incredibly important to me. He said it while knowing that they are not his, and that is a back-and-forth for him. I cannot begin to understand how he loves the kids the way that he does because I do.
If I were adopting or something like that, I would love that child, but I have not been put in a situation where that is the case. It’s awesome to ask the question and then get the right response. I would hope. Some people are like, “I’ll be whatever on the sidelines,” and I wanted somebody who’s going to get in the mud with them. Don’t sit on the sidelines.
The kids are good. They were still welcoming. I was more nervous than they were.
That is a good conversation. I know some people who are dating and have remarried and want a new partner, the children are off-limits. “I only raise my children. You are not their parent. You may talk to me or do something, but I don’t want you disciplining them, giving them any guidance, or things like that.” What made you open to wanting him to have an active role in parenting your children?
Building Healthy Family Dynamics With A New Partner
You have to be very careful about timing on this. He couldn’t come in and immediately be like, “Don’t do this. Don’t do that.” He needed to paint himself as the good guy, the good cop. After a certain amount of time, when you’re talking about introducing this person into your household, that’s when, more than ever, it took a little while after that. When he became part of the household and moved into the home with us, I said, “If you are doing this, you have to have a respected adult role in the household and discipline.”
We don’t do the hand stuff. I’m not spanking. We’re not doing any of that stuff. We don’t do that. If you are sitting and you’re talking to my kid because they have done something that’s messed up, you are an adult in the household. That’s a responsibility for you, or they are not going to respect you. In my opinion, everyone can do what they want to do, but it’s a level of respect that they have to have for him as an adult in the household.
If it was a parent who moved in, they would be given the same rights to say, “You’ve done something wrong here.” It’s still a balance that we try to figure out all the time, and that we talk about where you can say, “Jess, you’re yelling a bit. You seem like you’re not in a great mood.” I’ll say to him, “I don’t know that I needed the response that it had.” We have that all the time. We have those conversations.
Communication when it comes to, “Yes, you have the right to discipline verbally,” then you have to communicate with your partner in that situation, and you have to be open to communication too. Most likely, if you are dealing with the ups and downs of grief, and you are trying to parent and understand the emotions of children and do all of the things, you have to be open to hearing, “You’re probably doing something not great sometimes too, and maybe you need to bring it down a notch as well.” At least that’s my experience.
Thank you. You mentioned earlier about saying, “I love you.” Who said it first? How did you come to the conclusion, “I love my late spouse and I love this person,” and it’s okay? Fran, you’re first on that.
It was natural to know that we could love two people. Otherwise, we would not be dating. That was something natural. When it comes to it, when we had our first date and we had an amazing good date, I didn’t kiss her on the first date.
Did you want a kiss on the first date?
I did not.
It was for a reason. It was like, “She’s so nice and good. I love this person. I love her. I don’t want to lose her. I don’t want to mess up.”
You didn’t want to be too forward?
I didn’t want to be like, “This has been perfect. I want to see her again.”
Did you want the first kiss, Jessica?
Yes. You have no idea. I have to paint the picture for the first kiss. We are at a bar.
No. I want to know that part. You wanted the first kiss that didn’t happen?
Yes.
Go back to you, Fran.
For me, it was more like a matter of respect. I didn’t want to mess up, and I’m the type of person who if I want someone, I love someone, I prefer to wait a bit and then just not be too forward on the first date. It was for me like a matter of respect, and now it’s different. That’s the way I understood back then that it’s like, “I love this person. I respect her. I don’t want to do anything wrong or make her uncomfortable on the first date.” Also, that place was very empty because there was a crazy storm. There was no one. I didn’t want to look like I was in a place with no one around, being too forward.
When did you tell her? Who said, “I love you” first, Fran?
To me. No. I knew that I loved her.
It was early on.
At what point in this dating experience did you articulate to your betrothal that, “I love you?’
I felt so much like the butterflies in my stomach. I knew that and I told her that. It was 2 or 3 weeks. It was the third date.
Did it just come out and you were like, “I said that?” Were you planning to say it?
It came naturally. After three dates. I think it was already time to do it.
She’s about to pop over there. Hold on. Be quick. I can’t hold her that much longer.
We didn’t have that picture behind that. That’s it.
Had you kissed her yet when you said, “I love you?”
Yeah.
What did you think when three dates in he says, “I love you”?
It was confusing because you said it in Spanish.
You speak Spanish, right? Or did you learn it after you guys had been together?
I knew Spanish. Here’s the thing. He said, “Te quiero,” which means “I want you,” and I thought he meant it like, “I want you.” There was a month of ambiguity where he was saying it and I was like, “That’s sexy.” Then all along he meant it as “I love you,” and I was like, “That was early on.”
That’s two ways to say it. In Spain, we say “Te quiero,” but in other places, you can also say “Te amo.” In Spain, we normally say, “Te quiero.” It’s correct.
I would have understood, “Te amo.” Good for me.
“Te quiero,” is the way we say it in Spain.
How did it come up after a month of you thinking, “I want you? I love you?” What cleared the air on that one?
I asked him because I was like, “Do you mean like I love?” It’s because it was. I don’t think I confronted you about it for a while. It has been a while since you were saying it.
Technically, she was the first one saying, “I love you.” I said, “Te quiero.” Means I love you.
That was the whole thing I asked because at some point I was like, “I don’t know what he means.” I asked the question and then all of a sudden I was like, “He loves me. Genuinely, I love you now. I love you and I loved you then too.” That was fast. From my first dating experience, like after widowhood, I immediately started getting clammed up. I was like, “He’s love bombing me.”
It’s also the way that I felt. In the same way the first date we think I kissed you because I didn’t want to look too forward. I want to be with this person. The things I would say once I want to.
I think that there was never a point for me. I did a lot of work for myself as well. A lot of the therapies. I did group therapy, did individual therapy, and read books. I remember reading The Hot Young Widows Club, and Nora, who if I ever meet her. In that book, she talks about how love is not finite. You cannot say, “I love this person,” and everyone’s allowed to do whatever they want to as far as moving forward, but love is not finite. I love this person, and that was a conversation we had very early on. I can love the person that I was with or my partner that was lost and find love again. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have been doing what we were doing. We were not hooking up. We were not doing that type of relationship. We were doing it to find our future.
Love is not finite. Everyone is allowed to do whatever they want to as far as moving forward from grief. Share on XWe knew very early on that we had to be able to do that and to be able to love. I used to quote it as like a polygamist relationship on a spectral level so that you are loving multiple people at the same time, but I also have to love Audra and respect her for getting to where he is now. As much as we both know so much about our spouses, we also have to be able to say, “I respect that person for having,” and he did. He did a lot of respecting the partner that they were with for getting them to where they are, to be with us at this point.
Two questions. A little bit of what was intimacy like knowing that you had been with somebody else for so long now to make love to this person?
We also took our time for some weeks because again, when we were too serious, we were too serious in this relationship to move it forward. We don’t want to hook up and then bye.
We wanted to make sure.
That is important because you were dating for a long-term commitment. There are some people that are dating for a hookup. Everybody’s going to navigate this the way they want to, but there are some people going to make love to somebody else for the first time. How does that work? What does that look like? I will give you my version after you are done, but right now you are in the hot seat. Go ahead.
In the same way that I said I like this person, I want to make sure and do the right thing. I don’t want to move forward that fast in the same way that the first day didn’t have the first kiss. Also, I prefer to have more time to get to know each other, to meet each other, to have quality time, and to take care. We took our time for that. That time was around one month plus.
The question was how was it making love to someone else and it wasn’t Audra and being with this person thinking this level of intimacy has taken place. How was that for you? It was great you are still there, but I’m saying internally, how was that in your mind?
In my mind, I was with a person I love. If I had that internal debate, can I love someone else, I would not have even dated.
That’s something you had to reconcile and that’s important for people to understand. When you are going this further within a relationship and you are looking for something long-term, you do have to do that work for you to do upfront and not now at this moment.
At that point, I knew that I was with the person I loved.
I would agree with all of that. I would say if you are a person who is becoming intimate with somebody for the first time, it depends.
This is your experience. Not advice but just what was yours.
For me, you are looking for somebody new so you have to look at it that way, but you cannot help. You may have had this moment, but go comparatively like this versus this. You might compare, but you can’t use it in any way, in a positive or negative way against the person you were with your late spouse, or with the person that you are with now knowing like, “This is who this person is to me.” That you are allowed.
For me, by the time we were intimate, I knew this was the person I wanted to be with. In my mind, this is where we are going forever with this. I too was dating with the idea that I wanted to marry this person. I didn’t want to hook up. I didn’t want to just be with somebody. I wanted someone else that was going to be committed to me, and this was going to be a relationship.
I knew I was capable at that point. I’d already loved Fred, but I had not made love to anybody. I was with Mark for 32 years. I remember two things thinking he’s gone now. I know he was gone already, but in every layer of life when it happened, I was like, “He’s not here. I would not be right here doing this if he was still alive.”
Even though it was a beautiful moment, and he is good. I cried afterward and I don’t know why I cried. I remember him getting super nervous. He said, “Are you okay crying like that?” I was like, “It was the sense of reality. It wasn’t a grief moment, but it was a reality moment.” For me, I was like, “It was grief and it was joy and it was peace and everything together.”
If I would have still had my uterus, I would have thought that I was having this other experience. I’m like, “This is not menopause, but it was like an overwhelming sense of so many emotions together,” and also a sense of gratefulness like I can love and move. There was zero regret. Let me be clear about that, but it was all of that together. It was like life looked very different than what I thought as a teenager, where I am right now and things.
I have had that thought many times. You can’t help it. There were multiple moments where I went, “How did I get here?” When you asked me several years ago, “No, you couldn’t have anticipated that,” but this is where we are. We cannot change anything. We can only do the best that we can with the time that we have and with the people that we have that we love around us, and I’m not going to waste any more time in life worrying about what other people think.
After our first date, to rewind, I immediately told my in-laws. I had not told them that I had dated anyone else before, but I knew pretty strongly. I told you about my experience with Jerry that after the first date, I was like, “I just knew.” I told my mom that I was going to marry this guy. I remember being so distraught about him not kissing me on the first date.
The sign that he was the right guy. I was so upset. We went to a bar. It was an amazing night. We had dinner together. He bought a bottle of wine and was very swanky, and he offered to pay for dinner, which was a nice change. I offered to pay, but he offered to pay and he did, and then we did it when the night ended. We went to a local brewery that was across the street, and we stayed there. It was March, but all of a sudden, this insane storm started, and it’s called thundersnow, and it only happens six times a year in the entire world. It happened in Ohio.
On this night. There was thunder and lightning happening while snow was falling from the sky and it was like a once-in-a-lifetime thing. I was like, “He’s going to take me out to the car. He’s going to kiss me. There’s going to be thunder, snow, and lightning,” and it didn’t happen. I called my best friend and I was like, “What does this mean to me?” He said, “He had a good time. He wants to see me again. What am I doing?” I remember that reaction going like, “This is going to be something.” You know where you have to put your time, energy, and love because time is limited and you might as well do it. I’m sorry about that. I went on a rant.
I wanted to hear about that, and at what point was the first kiss?
On the next date.
It was the next date and I asked consent to kiss him because I was afraid he wouldn’t do it. I’m like, “I’m not going home without a kiss this time,” and I asked him. I said, “Can I kiss you, please?”
No. I was thinking that by the end of the night after we were talking, I thought that we had to, and then she said that and I said okay.
We were standing out by the car at the end of the day, and it felt like we were both dancing around, and I said, “Perfect. I’m going to ask him,” and I think you have to take that. As a widow, you have to take the opportunities, whatever it is, and ask the questions. That’s what I did.
Expressing Love And Commitment Early In The Relationship
I want to say Fred and I, I can’t remember how long we were dating. Anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months, and he was so wanting to not be forward. He wanted to understand why he had been divorced. He had no concept of what it was like to lose a spouse, and he was immersed in my friends and my family because I relocated to Virginia, and I lived here before. I had my core group of friends here. My sister was here, so he had a good sense of who I was. His parents are both deceased and had some family in Georgia, but his sons were here. He’s very respectful. He waited for me to kiss him, and I will never forget, that we were in his condo and he was doing something. I was like, “I’m going to kiss him.” I don’t know if I thought, but I felt like it was the right thing to do at that moment.
He was very receptive to that, but those steps, are for each person to decide when it’s going to be right for them because it can be something you are very apprehensive about. It’s something you want to be sure about. I would say if you are dating someone with the idea of having a long-term relationship and you cannot see yourself holding their hand, being intimate, or wanting to share that with other people, you may want to evaluate what you are dating for, what you are looking for, and why. What would you say to that type of advice to somebody?
Coming back to the previous point that life moves on, and even if it’s what we went through, we are still young.
Jessica makes sure that she gets this kiss. She’s not leaving home without it. How does the proposal for marriage work or did it work?
We were already planning to live together. I was in the middle of moving from my old house to here with her and the kids. We had already been talking about that. It would be important especially for the kids to show some commitment to each other, to have a ring, so we are not just informally dating. We are doing something serious. That’s something that I thought about that had to happen. We went ring shopping one day. We were spending a weekend out in Indiana, and after dinner and going out, I proposed to you on the bridge on the river.
You asked the kids for permission which was the important part for me. I said, “I don’t care if you ask my dad for permission,” no offense, Dad, but, “I do want you to make sure that you ask the kids,” because they have to be the deciding factor in all of these things.
One week before that I told her, and then I talked to them and I asked them permission to be with their mom and with them and they were excited and they were extremely welcoming and they made my life much easier.
Did you show them the ring when you were asking them?
No, we didn’t have it.
We did the same with moving in as well if you are a widow or widower who has children, my number one goal was to go by their lead and to go by what they wanted to do within reason. I was lucky to have kids who were excitedly about having a new person in our life who needed that, so I am not everyone’s story, but for me, the most important thing was making sure that they were part of our story and that they are part of this relationship because that’s how it would have been with their dad. It has to be a whole group. It can’t be, “I’m moving on with this guy and I’m moving forward with a marriage and you are going to have to deal with him being in the house now.” I wanted them to actively participate in the relationship so that I knew that they were okay with it.
I wanted the truth and it never stops that we don’t keep talking about it and talking about their feelings about their dad in relation to Fran. There are times that you’ll say stuff or do things that you can see right away that they think about their dad. That’s something that happens frequently, and he’s very good at addressing issues, and questions about Jerry, and encouraging them to talk about Jerry. While the proposal, he did all of that. We had to also include the kids. They were part of every one of these steps, and if you can include your kids in those decisions, life’s going to be a lot easier.
Every year, when I had that conversation with the kids, it was so genuine, and then a couple of weeks later.
You proposed a bridge.
Then she said yes.
Do you guys have pictures of anything from that night?
I do. I can grab the one from here.
Can you share that so we can put that in the blog too?
Yeah. Use these mixed-tile things and they are nice. This is the night we got engaged.
That would be so cool. You mentioned something earlier that I want to circle back to. It’s out of order, but we mentioned it earlier. You said we have permission and we have the right to continue living and loving. I feel like society gives that right more to men than it always does to women. What would your thoughts be on that, Jessica?
I would like to say I have been, for the most part, very much supported by the people that are around me, but I hear a lot more stories about women being shamed for moving forward than men. It’s because society has a tendency to think that men can’t do it all on their own and women are expected to. No offense, but that’s how people look at it. They need a woman to be able to take care of the household. “She’ll figure out how to mow the lawn. She’s going to be fine.”
We as widows are pitied, while widowers are seen as helpless.
I never saw it that way.
That’s what sets it up as we pity her, we feel bad for her, but she has to stay where she is when the men are helpless without a woman. Men need a woman in their life to be able to help them with A, B, and C. For us, we are expected to make up the other part that the men don’t do. I know I said I was very biased about sex roles right there, but they exist. They exist for a reason, I don’t want to perpetuate them, but they do exist in our culture. I think that’s where it comes from. I think it’s how people view it.
Also, it’s partially the sex part. I’m sorry. I’m going to throw it out there. Men expect and need to have sex, and women don’t. Therefore, women shouldn’t move forward because they don’t need sex. Why would women ever need to have sex or sexual relations or a sexual partner? Men are expected to want that all the time, so therefore they need a partner.
It’s a lot of things. I could go on. I could write a whole book about it.
You need one more episode.
A whole other episode, but it’s very much a socially driven, inherent bias between men and women that drives this narrative that we shouldn’t move forward, that we should stay stuck, that we should wear black, that we should always look sad instead of we are not going to do that. I refuse to be that and to do that.
It is an inherent bias between men and women driving the narrative that we should not move forward and stay stuck in our grief. Let us refuse to be like that. Share on XFran, do you have any opinion on the double standard between widowers and widows as far as moving forward and continuing to find love again and having that permission?
I’m not in any widow community, so I can only talk about myself or how I see others. At least in my case, no judgment. If someone is in the right emotional place and wants to move forward in this way, but knowing where you come from, I don’t see any problem with that. I feel that you simply need to feel that you are prepared and you are ready because again, if you don’t, you’re not ready and you started. Maybe you are hurting that person, so you don’t want that. You are ready to move forward.
In the case of dating, I know that the widow is also ready to move forward. I can say it again, in our case, we both are widows and widowers and that makes everything much easier, that we could understand each other. We understood the need to move forward. We understand that we love our late spouses, but our life present and future is with each other.
Navigating Grief Together As A Couple
Thank you. Speaking of you both loving each other and still loving Jerry and Audra, how do you support or engage each other when you may be having some type of grief wave or a moment where you are thinking about them? Sometimes people say, “They’re trauma-bonded if they are both widows and widowers.” Maybe Jessica may hear different things like that in the community she’s involved in, but what would you say to that and how does that work for you?
There are days that we know are special like the day of the dead. That’s when they passed is always hard. Their birthdays are always hard, and the days of our weddings are very hard. I would say that these are the three main days that we know that we are going to be grieving.
How do you support Jessica when that’s happening for her or what type of support do you want when you are going through that?
I already get all the support from her when that happens. She understands how I feel, and how important those days are, and she’s supportive. She’s always open to talk. I never have any filter like I cannot say this or that. I simply can tell her, “This is the anniversary of this, or this is the birthday, or this was our wedding anniversary,” and that’s cool.
Not on those days too, because it happens a couple of times a week that we’ll bring up if something reminds us of our spouses. We gave permission very early on. On our first date, we talked about being a widow and a widower, and what that’s like. We are very open about that dialogue, saying we need partners who we can talk to about these things, and that was my take on it from the very beginning. We do. It’s not just the big days. It is random, weird times that something will happen and I go, “Jerry,” or, “Audra.”
We listen. We sit with the person. We are with the person versus judging or cutting off or saying, “I don’t want to hear this.” It’s being with the person, giving them the space they need not like physical space, but the space to feel those feelings and that was something, honestly, that attracted me to you early on, is that it wasn’t, “We’ve been through these horrible things that this person is going to sit with me while I have this. Do not sympathize, empathize with me. They also be able to heal a little bit on their own, because then we would share stories back and forth. It would be a question of, “This is what the holidays would be like and this is hard because of him not being here.” It was hard for me. We would be able to heal together in those moments. That was important.
There were things I would not do before because it reminded me of Audra, but I realized she does the same. I don’t know. Like watching a specific TV show and then it’s like, I can watch this show now with a different perspective that is not watching. This brings me to a sad place of grief. It’s bringing me to our current dance where we are right now.
Different. Thank you both for that. The wedding. When I say that, what comes to mind to you, Jessica?
It was intimate. As far as you are saying, the actual wedding that we had.
Jessica, your friend’s wedding, when you hear that, what comes to mind first?
Intimate. It is a big thing. The first time around, we had a big Catholic wedding. We did the stuff with the priests beforehand and 250 guests and craziness. I did not want that. I wanted to be with the people who were closest to us. There are people in my wedding pictures from several years ago that I have not talked to at all. I was like, “I wanted to prioritize my family and my absolute closest friends,” and I know there may be some friends that were hurt by the decision not to include them, but I was like I want to make sure that this is our core group and the people who we know will support us from here forward.
Celebrating Love With A Simple Backyard Wedding
I should tell you we had a backyard wedding on Labor Day. It was supposed to be a surprise for everyone, but I’m part of a family. My mom’s 1 of 8 and it was not a surprise by the time the thing happened, but it was quick. I wanted something where people could leave and go like, “That was the craziest thing, but also the nicest, fastest wedding I have ever been to.”
We had a little walk into the song “I Want to Marry You” by Bruno Mars. We had a choreographed walk-in, and then we did the ceremony and went straight to the first dance. Dance with Dad, danced with him with the kids, and then we cut the cake and then it was done. It was a total of probably 25 to 30 minutes total for the whole wedding. Everyone was already at my parents’ house for Labor Day. They can see Cincinnati, which shoots off fireworks at night and does a whole fireworks display, and they were already there for that. We had a Spanish-themed dinner. We had somebody come and make paella, and then everyone brought little treats that were Spanish-themed, and so it worked out. It was awesome. Perfect. It was somewhat easy, which we wanted, and intimate with the most important people.
I would say that it was informal especially for the guests because if you organize a wedding, people are like, they dress up, they bring gifts, but this was a backyard Labor Day surprise dinner party. People were wearing their shorts and comfy clothes. Even before that, we were dressed very casually, and then we put on our fancier wedding clothes wedding dress, and bow tie.
It was fun.
Too bad my vows were too short.
I had long vows, but they were good, and everyone complimented them. It was good.
Do you guys write your vows?
We did.
Did you ever think that this would happen, for you to have love again in your life like this? You may have hoped for it, but you thought it would happen.
Before I have hope. I would not have started dating. Putting myself into darker times, maybe 1 or 2 months after. I am in a place now that I would have wanted me to be. Back then I wasn’t ready. It would have been a big mistake if I had started dating back then. I’m in a place right now where if I could talk to myself from 2021, I would be happy. I’m also surprised at how everything worked out.
I agree with everything you said.
For someone who is thinking about dating, their first thought is, “I had a wonderful marriage and nobody can be my spouse.” What would you say to them?
They are not ready.
I would say I don’t know if they’re ready if that’s what their mentality is. I would like to say they can only know through doing, but I don’t know that they are ready to do the dating scene if that’s where they are. You can say, “I had the absolute best person for me at the time,” and still know that you deserve to move forward. Also, know that is the only person you’ve known on that level of intimacy before. How could you possibly know that you won’t love anyone more?
You are cutting yourself off to love. That’s all you’re doing. You are not memorializing the person you loved before by cutting off ties and the possibility of love in the future. The only thing you are doing is cutting yourself off to love. It’s no hate to the people who don’t want to. That’s their decision but if you say, “I can’t because of the person you were with before,” you are probably not ready, and you are also not thinking outside the box because you don’t know.
I can say, for me, something you said before, I noticed the differences, but I’m not comparing the differences. I didn’t want the person who eighteen-year-old Mark met because I’m not her anymore. I feel I love Fred in a more profound way than I love Mark because I have learned to love from being with Mark. I learned how to navigate relationships from my relationship with Mark, and how fragile our existence is not a statement like, “We are here today and gone tomorrow.” That stuff is for real. I could wake up and this could be a wrap.
That gives me a different, more intense, and profound love. I feel like I love Fred more than I love Mark because of what I’ve experienced and what that looks like. Giving ourselves the permission to say nobody is going to replace Mark. I like how you both say that you are still widows or widowers. Those are your spouses. I am forever Mark’s widow. Being married now to Fred does not change that situation. I get annoyed when I hear people say, “You are not a widow anymore,” and I’m like, “Are they coming back?” They’re still gone. Tell me how that works.
All that I have from their death is still very much present. Like that does not go away.
No. Especially all the moments before that, all the years of illness.
The duality exists. I’ve asked you guys a lot of questions. Any questions for me?
We’ve covered so much.
Was there anything you thought we would talk about that we did not cover?
What’s your opinion about how old is too old to restart, to enter the dating world?
There’s a limit. I’ve seen people like 70, and 80 date and get married. I will say the only thing for me is, “I don’t know if I have the heart to do this a third time.” If Fred passes, I’m probably going to be wrecked. I can’t say for sure, but that was one thing about getting married, it’s like you know why you are here because somebody left.
That was probably the thing I had the most anxiety about being a widow. My grandmother was widowed five times. I was like, “I don’t know how that worked five times.” I knew it was in my genes to get married at least one more time. I was thinking of being in that space again. I’ve told my younger sister. She and I talk a lot and I’ll say this. If Fred sleeps too long, I’m in there going, “You’re fine.”
I never did that with Mark. I’m like, “He sleeps late.” That’s what people do but let him go on a trip or do something and not call me. Trigger warning. My younger sister would go, “How many times has he died in your head?” He’s been gone for like three hours. Those never were things that were in my mind. I don’t have an age limit on when you should enter. I don’t think I have the heart to do it another time. Like if he leaves this world before me, my girlfriends better be ready for a lot of quality time. I don’t think I have the emotional bandwidth to do that.
We’ve talked about that.
I’m going to be wid-hoe if it ever happens again. Forget that. I am not going to do this whole relationship thing. I will be a hoe like a wid-hoe and I’m okay with that. You learned it. I told you about that a while ago, wid-hoe.
I thought I was going to be a wid-hoe the first time, but I’m going to say it, I was dusty. I had no desire. I wanted to, but she was like, “We are not ready for that.” I was like, “Are you sure, girl?” She’s like, “No.”
We already had this discussion. I told her, you move on. You don’t stay like crying and weeping.
We know that Audra said for him to move forward. From my story, Jerry told me to move forward, but in a very different way. We gave that permission very early on because Jerry not explicitly saying it stuck with me, while also still being like it’s okay because he would want his children and myself to be happy, and that includes another person in our life. Doing this again. No.
It’s funny because that was a conversation I had with Fred, and he’s looking at me like, “I know she told me that she and Mark talked about this, but why are we talking about this?” It’s because we don’t stay. and I need you to know. He said, “I’m going to be with my dog, and we’re going to be happy. I am not messing around in any streets.” I said, “What we say now can change, and that’s because of where we are emotionally, and what that can look like later is different.” That’s a good question. That brought up more conversation. Thank you, Fran.
At any age, do what you want to do to be happy. As long as you are not hurting people, as long as you are not hurting yourself. Go be happy. Do what you need to be happy.
As long as you are not hurting people and yourself, do what you need to be happy. Share on XFrom our conversation, there’s nothing wrong with being happy. There’s nothing wrong with looking for happiness, but you need to be prepared, and you need to be ready that you are not going to be hurt and you are not going to hurt anyone.
I love your compassion in this experience of dating, not thinking of yourself, but the person that you are connecting with and making sure you are doing them no harm. Two questions remained, and Fran did this a little bit. If you were to speak to yourself the week your spouse passed versus where you are now, what hope, guidance, or words would you give to that person of you that first week?
What I would say is grief, take your time grieving. There is nothing wrong. If it takes 1 to 3 years. Take your time. When you are ready, you feel that you are ready. You come to realize yourself because that’s one thing that grieves me. It’s a lot of introspection to know myself, to know when I’m ready. When I know that, I’m not going to be like an emotional bomb, or I don’t know what you call it. If I’m going to be unstable for myself or unstable for another person, that would be toxic for everyone. It might take 1 or 2 years, or might never happen. That’s 1 or 2.
It’s funny that you said that. I was going to say almost the same thing. As I said, keep doing what you are doing because it works out. I wouldn’t want them to know. If I could talk to them, I wouldn’t want them to know where they got to. I want them to keep doing what they are doing because it gets them to where I am now.
I needed that more than anything. That’s what TikTok did for me. It normalized so much stuff. I have a whole series of 37 videos or more at this point, probably, of crazy stuff I did as a new widow, and I thought I was crazy, only to find out that everyone else is going through the same thing. A lot of people are dealing with the same thoughts, feelings, expressions, all of that.
I would tell myself to just do it. It’s not easy. It’s a horrible path to walk through, but the only way to get to where you are now is not that everything is perfect because we still have so much to figure out on a daily basis, and we do. Where I am now is so far from where I was then, that I would tell myself to keep moving. Keep breathing, keep moving, keep doing what you are doing because that’s all that’s necessary right now.
One thing I would add to this is that this may show us that we are stronger than we may have thought when that happened. I still remember those first weeks, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to survive this. This is hard. This is not easy. If there is something that we have learned from this, it’s that we know we are strong people too.
Even though you can’t stand anybody telling you that you are strong at that point, you look back and go, “I would want to share as people are reading this conversation, that being in a relationship after your spouse passes is not mandatory. It’s not a fix for your grief, but I wanted to have this conversation so you could understand it is possible. The reality of it exists.
You are the first person to give yourself permission to be able to open up and have the possibility of connecting. Maybe it’s with friends. Maybe you weren’t a big social person before your spouse passed, and now you would like to make new friends. You want to be happy or try new hobbies. It is possible to fall in love with yourself first. I would always recommend that before you start giving your heart to someone else, but you are here for a reason. Your life matters, and I encourage you to find the things that make you happy. I would like Fran and Jessica to give their closing comments as we wrap up this conversation.
Closing remarks. I don’t know what others have to add. I would simply say that, and I hope this conversation helps other people who are dealing with the same things that we’ve been dealing with in the past several years. Again, grief is still here. We are in a different stage, but we are still widows and widowers. I hope that this conversation can help someone else out there, that the way that they are feeling or thinking is normal, that we went through the same.
As we are talking about dating and marriage and all of the things, I would reiterate finding your joy, being safe about it, taking your time, and enjoying yourself again. Enjoying life again not because of another person, but because of how they make you feel and then also finding ways to make yourself feel that way without them because you also have to find internal joy without the other person. I don’t know that we talked about that as much as we should.
Finding New Joy And Moving Forward As A Family
You have to love yourself, find joy in life, and then also be able to include another person in it. Do whatever it is that’s going to bring you that joy, whether it’s being with another person or not being with another person because it is possible on either end, and there’s joy in both directions, depending on how you live that life out. I’m glad that we had the opportunity to talk to you and to get to know you a little bit better, but also to be able to express that life is not an easy one, but there is life and joy.
Fran and Jessica, thank you so much for having this conversation. Thank you for being prepared for whatever question may come not dodging it and being willing to share. I appreciate you so much. Thank you for being here. Have a good day.
Thanks. Have a good one. Bye.
